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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 08-10-2020, 10:04 AM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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Originally Posted by Janus View Post
You negotiate.

If you come to agreement, you sign the agreement, everybody goes home happy.

If you do not come to an agreement, nobody signs anything, and a judge makes a decision.

I don't get the difficulty here.
when 2 lawyers agree to something and their clients do:
I provided 2 examples where unsigned agreements were still binding so the signature being required is not absolute.

I had 3 lawyers inform me of that I could not back out of something after I agreed to it (without a signature). Why would they do that?

Why would one negotiate at all then if the negations were fake all along and meant to use up lawyer hours?
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  #12  
Old 08-10-2020, 10:52 AM
LovingDad1234 LovingDad1234 is offline
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Why would one negotiate at all then if the negations were fake all along and meant to use up lawyer hours?
To deplete you of your financial resources in hopes you agree to settle for a lesser deal out of desperation to make the financial bleeding stop.

Welcome to family court, where anything goes!!
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  #13  
Old 08-10-2020, 10:58 AM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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To deplete you of your financial resources in hopes you agree to settle for a lesser deal out of desperation to make the financial bleeding stop.

Welcome to family court, where anything goes!!
I posted 2 links in here where it isn't anything goes. At some point judges must generally hold someone accountable for bad behavior and that is the line I am looking for.
Both sides make a deal then once backs out without reason other than "I am not going to let my client do that"
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  #14  
Old 08-10-2020, 11:35 AM
LovingDad1234 LovingDad1234 is offline
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Judges hold other sides accountable after there is a Motion or a Trial in terms of assessing if costs are warranted.

That means, IF you are successful at a costs award, you submit to the court the amount you spent on the legal proceedings, which would include the X hours of bullcrap negotiations your ex put your lawyer through. The judge even has the discretion to determine the legitimacy of the hours spent. The judge may say "50 hours of legal fees is excessive for the complexity of this case and I cap it at 30 hours".

That is "IF" you even get to a trial. 98% of cases settle before trial, whereby most Minutes of Settlement include a "no costs" clause.
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  #15  
Old 08-10-2020, 12:22 PM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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I am not thinking about costs here. Simply the judges re-enforcing of a deal made.
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  #16  
Old 08-10-2020, 10:36 PM
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I am not thinking about costs here. Simply the judges re-enforcing of a deal made.
Nothing is signed. Both of you are alive. The issues are contemporaneous with the dispute. The judge is not going to enforce an unsigned agreement here. It is just not going to happen.

Instead of trying to find a new angle to argue that this unsigned deal should be enforced, just renegotiate.

Yes, it sucks, but now you know better.
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  #17  
Old 08-11-2020, 10:31 AM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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Nothing is signed. Both of you are alive. The issues are contemporaneous with the dispute. The judge is not going to enforce an unsigned agreement here. It is just not going to happen.

Instead of trying to find a new angle to argue that this unsigned deal should be enforced, just renegotiate.

Yes, it sucks, but now you know better.
I suppose all I have then are complaints to the law society to try and get that lawyer in order, I don't think that will work because I am sure someone would have done it before me.

Negotiating with unprincipled and unreasonable people just doesn't happen, it is a big waste of time and money. I have been principled but maybe it is time to change tactics and be an a hole and simply litigate at every opportunity....that is so negative.

I don't know how you ended up negotiating things with your ex but it sounded like that didn't happen so much for you.
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  #18  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:09 AM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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Pinkhouses, you are correct in that negotiating with unprincipled and unreasonable people just doesnt happen, it is a big waste of time and money. Changing tactics and litigating at every opportunity is not the route to go. It will only provide your lawyer with another pound of your flesh in the form of your hard earned life savings.
As a Person who has been involved in this broken system of family law litigation with an unreasonable and brain damaged STBX for approaching 10 years now ( yes 10 years) I feel qualified to give you some advice to keep your sanity.

Now that you have come to the conclusion you can not negotiate with your ex...dont. Just be sure you have sent at least one reasonable offer to settle ( preferably a severable one) to cover you when costs are awarded. Do not entertain further negotiations and push for trial if in court, arbitration if in med/arb.
If there are issues which need a definitive answer in the meantime, do your obligatory cc then straight to a motion to get a signed order.

Rein your lawyer in. Dont let them get side tracked with negotiations or if in med arb, dont let them convince you to do more than the one single session of obligatory mediation before heading straight to arbitration.
Control your lawyer to control your costs. You now know you cant reason with your ex. Your lawyer may be wearing rose coloured glasses or they simply dont care and want to wring as much money out of you as possible.

If this is going to drag on for years you may want to look into unbundled services or even going self rep a time or two ( this drove my ex bonkers because he was still paying hundreds of thousands in legal fees and I wasnt).

Bottom line is. Let your ex waste their time and money. You be strategic and careful with yours. Push for a Motion and a trial or arbitration to get signed orders so you can actually get off this train wreck.

Last edited by Stillbreathing; 08-11-2020 at 11:11 AM.
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  #19  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:22 PM
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I don't know how you ended up negotiating things with your ex but it sounded like that didn't happen so much for you.
To the contrary, my ex renenged on pretty much 100% of the verbal agreements we reached while negotiating our separation agreement.

I learned quickly that words were nice, but not to take anything seriously until it was in writing and she had signed it.

That principle still holds today. If we "agree" to something, I don't consider it to be an actual agreement until it has been sent by her by email. I generally assume that anything she says to me is a lie until shown otherwise. Sadly, that assumption is often correct.

That's why I especially don't get all your concerns. Some people lie, you cannot change that, so you just work with it.
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2020, 07:21 PM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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That principle still holds today. If we "agree" to something, I don't consider it to be an actual agreement until it has been sent by her by email. I generally assume that anything she says to me is a lie until shown otherwise. Sadly, that assumption is often correct.

That's why I especially don't get all your concerns. Some people lie, you cannot change that, so you just work with it.
Mine is the same. They lie about everything, even the court order and when they agree of offer something I don't believe it until the money is in my account or I see the report signed by the authority that stated it.

Our agreements were on letters signed by the attorney and that is what I get bent up about.

:-)
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