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  • Case Conferences

    My first Case Conference is scheduled for June 28. I am the Applicant Father, self-representing, and I applied to get Child Support payments reduced to "straight offset" method of calculation to reflect the Shared Custody regime.

    She would not agree to this a couple years ago.... at that time she would only let me have my daughter over 40% of the time if I did not reduce the child support to straight offset. I obviously didn't like her approach, but what is a parent going to do... you want to spend as much time as possible with your children. Since that day, I've always felt like I've been BLACKMAILED.

    Anyway, our case is pretty straightforward, as you can see above. A couple questions:

    1. When do I need to have my CC brief served and filed by? June 21? When does the Respondant side serve me their CC brief?
    2. When do I need to confirm the CC date by?
    3. Her lawyer wants me to meet with them on June 23 to see if we can hammer out a settlement... I think this seems like a reasonable thing to do, particularly as I had already sent them a formal offer to settle last month (wish they had suggested this much earlier though).
    4. Any thoughts on how this would go? Of course, the Respondant's side says that they won't budge. Other lawyers I have talked to at the court house agree with me in that I should only be paying CS based on "straight offset" when sharing custody.

    Any thoughts? Much appreciated.
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  • #2
    Who is currently collecting the CCTB for the child(ren)?

    Comment


    • #3
      Questions 1- 3: Courts of Justice Act - R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 194

      Question 4: Lots of info on this forum on status quo and 60/40 rule regarding CS

      Comment


      • #4
        NBDad

        NBDad,

        My ex-wife is currently collecting the full CCTB... I understand that I can apply for it on a 6 months on & off basis.

        I think you were trying to get a point across... weren't you? Please elaborate... many thanks. I find myself getting more nervous by the day.

        Look forward to your thoughts...

        Comment


        • #5
          These guides might be useful.

          Separation and Divorce - Going to Court - Ontario.ca

          Comment


          • #6
            dadtotheend

            Thanks for the link dadtotheend. I sometimes find it hard to navigate through the legalese and get the exact kernal of info that I'm looking for... guess I was just being a bit lazy and I figured if I put some real life dates out there, then someone may provide me with the real life dates of when I need to accomplish certain things... I believe the CC brief needs to be done at least 7 days before the CC date.

            With regards to your comment in 4., I've found that reading through forum posts is a bit like reading CANLII cases... everything is a mixed bag, and it is sometimes difficult to see common patterns to draw inferences from.

            My case is pretty simple... your comment about the "STATUS QUO" worries me though. Are you saying that since I've been paying CS without an offset for over 2 years now (since the Shared Custody began), that I will have a problem getting it reduced?

            Comment


            • #7
              My point was if you are trying to solidify your claim to offset CS, you should be claiming the CCTB/UCCB for your 6 months, AND claiming the child on your income tax every other year.

              It's a couple of minor details you can use to tip things into your favor.

              Basically when you file a motion to have CS changed to offset amounts, you indicate you signed the prior agreement under duress, as it was the only way your ex would allow you to see your child more often and be a part of her life. Now that an existing status quo custody arrangement has been in place for X amount of time, you want to reduce the amount of CS paid to the proper amounts.

              Her lawyer wants me to meet with them on June 23 to see if we can hammer out a settlement... I think this seems like a reasonable thing to do, particularly as I had already sent them a formal offer to settle last month
              They always try last minute stuff like this. They use it to try to pressure you into settling. Depending on WHAT they offer, they may try to bring it up against you if you refuse it. Be VERY careful here.

              Comment


              • #8
                NBDad

                Thanks NBDad.

                A couple years back we both claimed the $2000+ child tax credit, and then CRA sent me a letter saying that only one of us could claim it.... so we agreed that she (EX) would claim the credit and then reimburse me in cash for 50% of the value of the credit (50% of ~ $300, or $150). She didn't pay it back to me last year. Also, re CCTB, my income is such that it is worthless to me ($0 for my 6 months), so I thought it just made sense to let her take it since it is worth ~ $70 per month for her.

                As part of my Offer to Settle, I offered that going forward I would allow her to claim the CTC, CCTB, and Eligible Dependent tax credit in full (with no involvement from me), and that I would forgive any past monies owing from the CTC. Of course, I stuck with my "straight offset" going forward, but I did offer to make it effective on July 1, 2010 , and offered not to bother trying to get any retroactive overpayments. Does that seem like a bit of a fair offer??

                (she rejected it anyway, and is forcing a Case Conference for June 28!)

                Technically, how much retroactive CS overpayment can I legally argue for? Does it go back to Fall/2007 when Shared Custody began (and she rejected my offer for only a 50% offset), or would it be when I filed my Motion to Change in Jan/2010?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Whether or not it seems to make sense to let her have the credits and deductions, the rules state that they should be split. By not following the rules you weaken your argument, she can argue that despite any time-share agreement, she is the primary caregiver in the eyes of the government.

                  You are also, no offence, being a doormat by letting her do this. If she was playing fair, that is one thing. She is taking you, and you are not being aggressive by following the rules, you are setting things back to neutral.

                  Be very careful with your wording and your concepts. YOU ARE NOT SEEKING REFUND OF OVERPAYMENT. The offset calculation is made by taking what she should pay you and subtracting it from what you pay her.

                  What you are seeking is arrears of child support payments she should have been making for the past years. Your children should be supported by both parents. She should be paying support (in concept) by having the amount subtracted from whay you pay. Your children should have been benefiting while in your household from the full value of the support she should be "paying" for the 50/50 time-share.

                  Child support is an automatic entitlement of the children which is payed according to income as set out in the tables. Thus it is arrears of support which by law should have been paid even without a court order or signed agreement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mess

                    Thanks Mess for your comments.

                    Would your comments still apply (or be as strong) if the actual sharing is more like 44%/56% in her favor?

                    Is the "straight offset" truly the law? I thought that was a "mere" starting point, and that there would be other considerations (each case is different) that need to be taken into account... and then in the end the Judge would have full discretion to order as he/she see's fit.

                    I have done some "Contino" calculations based on reasonable expenses attributable by both sides for our daughter.... and they do always seem to lead back to the fact that the "straight offset" is a reasonable proxy of reality. Would it be advisable to include my "Contino" calcs in the Case Conference brief to present in front of the judge?

                    Any practical thoughts on the extent of information that I should include in the CC brief? Given that our issues are confined to Child Support & Section 7 expenses, how long would you envision my CC brief being in pages? I am cognizant of the need to be "brief" while at the same time providing enough information to make the strongest case possible and pre-empt any stuff the EX may throw at me.

                    Thanks again... really appreciate everybody's responses & advice... this is starting to get a little nerve-wracking.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the offset is pretty standard. it makes no difference if she has 56&#37; rather than 50%. it is set as time shared equalling between 40 and 60% for each parent. That way if one of you gets an extra day or 2 then it doesn't get dragged back to court.

                      FWIW I can see you thought you were doing what you had to. You've been taken and you need to have that recified. Good Luck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Billiechic.

                        Anyone have any thoughts on the content, format, and length of the Case Conference brief (given the somewhat contained issues at hand)?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Anyone have any thoughts on the content, format, and suggested length of the Case Conference brief (given the somewhat contained issues at hand)?

                          Many thanks.<!-- / message -->

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Anything between 40%-60% is considered shared parenting and is treated with the offset method.

                            The Ontario Family Law Child Support Guidelines is the law. You are concerned with Section 9, "Shared Custody". The Guidelines specify that when physical custody is between 40%-60% then the table amounts of both parents are considered.

                            Judges have discretion to go over or below the Guidelines, and they can go over or below the offset. However the law requires them to start with the offset amount, and any difference requires a just reason. As I understand it, "most" cases will simply go with the straight offset unless there is some clear reason like an undue hardship claim, or one side has extraordinary but justified living expenses (very high rent for example, but must live in Downtown Toronto.) This was the opinion of both my lawyers and the result of my case conference.

                            As to your question about the brief, understand that the Brief must be brief. If you can put it on one page in point form the judge will love you. The Brief is usually discarded after the conference. It is just there to give the judge points to bring up for conversation.

                            So ask yourself, what do I want to leave the Case Conference with? These are your main points. Then as subsections between these main points, you want short point form facts that support your requests. They will start the conversation allowing you to bring up the main ideas verbally.

                            You do not have to write an entire novel. What you want to write is the blurb on the back cover that peaks the judge's interest and makes him want to hear the whole story.

                            Comment

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