Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Spousal Support Increase

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spousal Support Increase

    Why is it that SS goes up each year after separation/divorce the same as CS when the payor makes more money each year? Is it to balance the household incomes?

    My friend has been offered a fixed amount of SS for 10 years. Each year the payors salary is calculated at $150k. The recievers income is calculated at $20k and increases by $10k each year.

    The reciever is a university graduate working part time making $30/hr. Potential full time employment earnings could be up to $70k and more if promoted.

    The reason for part time employment is so the reciever can stay at home and raise the 2 children until they attend school. The reciever did take career sacrifices to have a family. Duration of marriage was 5 years both under 30 years old now.

    Is this offer to settle fair and reasonable or a low ball to try and reduce SS obligation. Should my friend take the offer? What if full time employment at $70k in 10 years cannot be found? What if the payor's salary increases to $175k?

    Is the reciever capabile of working full time now? Yes, the kids can go to daycare but is that the best for them? Does the reciever have to work or be imputed $70k salary now? Or should the reciever be given SS until full time employment is found (which makes one think why would someone even look or take a job just go to the interview and tank it on purpose). Is the reciever allowed to work part time for the next 2 years (stay home with kids) then pursue full time employment?

    FYI entitlement is not an issue, both parties agree on it.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Canadaguy View Post
    Why is it that SS goes up each year after separation/divorce the same as CS when the payor makes more money each year? Is it to balance the household incomes?

    My friend has been offered a fixed amount of SS for 10 years. Each year the payors salary is calculated at $150k. The recievers income is calculated at $20k and increases by $10k each year.

    The reciever is a university graduate working part time making $30/hr. Potential full time employment earnings could be up to $70k and more if promoted.

    The reason for part time employment is so the reciever can stay at home and raise the 2 children until they attend school. The reciever did take career sacrifices to have a family. Duration of marriage was 5 years both under 30 years old now.

    Is this offer to settle fair and reasonable or a low ball to try and reduce SS obligation. Should my friend take the offer? What if full time employment at $70k in 10 years cannot be found? What if the payor's salary increases to $175k?

    Is the reciever capabile of working full time now? Yes, the kids can go to daycare but is that the best for them? Does the reciever have to work or be imputed $70k salary now? Or should the reciever be given SS until full time employment is found (which makes one think why would someone even look or take a job just go to the interview and tank it on purpose). Is the reciever allowed to work part time for the next 2 years (stay home with kids) then pursue full time employment?

    FYI entitlement is not an issue, both parties agree on it.
    You don't say what the offered amount of SS is, so my response may not be accurate, but I can say that SS is often fixed, or steps down. It is based on incomes during the marriage, not necessarily on things that happen after the marriage. If your friend's ex gets a nice promotion with a raise, that's hardly due to her support, so why should she benefit from it with increased SS? The stepping down of SS, decreasing every year, is to provide an incentive for the recipient to find her own employment.

    Ten years of SS for a 5-year marriage when the recipient is young, educated and able to work is MORE THAN FAIR. If the justification is that the recipient should stay home with the children until they are in school, ten years is way over the time period needed. Even if one of the children is a newborn, they'll be in full time school in four years or so for JK. So that's six more years of SS after the recipient could be working full time. If the recipient cannot find full time employment for six years, that's not her ex's problem anymore. Conversely, if she signs this deal and goes out and finds full time employment tomorrow, that's not the ex's problem - he's stuck paying SS for ten years anyways AND his proportionate share of daycare costs.

    Comment


    • #3
      All good points Rioe, thank-you for the feedback. I was thinking the same thing. It is weird that the guidelines for SS give such a large range of 5 to 15 years for example but in no cases is SS awarded at the mid to high end range for duration. Most are awarded at the low end duration range.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry, the amount offered was mid-range amount and stepped down over the last 3 years.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Canadaguy View Post
          All good points Rioe, thank-you for the feedback. I was thinking the same thing. It is weird that the guidelines for SS give such a large range of 5 to 15 years for example but in no cases is SS awarded at the mid to high end range for duration. Most are awarded at the low end duration range.
          The guidelines give minimum duration based on the length of the marriage, and maximum duration based on the date the youngest child turns 18 and finishes school.

          The latter is a holdover from days of homemaker moms who were not expected to do anything but send the kids off to school in the morning and be there with snacks when the children came home in the afternoon. Once you understand that, it's not weird. Just outdated. It's probably rarely to never done anymore, but still in there to make greedy exes think they can try for it anyways.

          My personal opinion is that when a marriage ends, it's the responsibility of both people to be self-supporting as soon as possible. It was nice that when they were married they could pool their resources, but things change when a relationship ends. As far as I'm concerned, your friend should be seeking full-time employment right now and putting the children in daycare. If her ex really thinks her staying home is best for the children, he can pay SS until they are in school full time. But he has no control over her, so he'd be stuck paying even if she didn't listen and went out and got a job.

          If your friend's ex is offering ten years of SS, even if it steps down regularly until it reaches zero, that's still WAY more than fair in my opinion. Unless the unmentioned amount is dinky and not a good replacement for employment.

          Comment


          • #6
            5 year marriage:
            -My starting point would be 2.5 yrs of spousal support
            -Shared Custody
            -Kids go to Daycare ASAP
            -Mom attempts to find full-time work ASAP. If she is educated, young etc.. she can at least get a job 15$/hour and thats good enough.

            I don't care if she can make 70k or not.

            This is a short marriage, there is no entitlement to "non-compensatory" standard of living type spousal support.

            This is basically spousal support to transition the wife off to her lower lifestyle (until she gets remarried - then she is golden).

            Its important even for spousal support considerations what the custody arrangement is.

            Spousal support is viewed as a payment for future parenting sacrifices by the mom as well.

            Comment


            • #7
              Great info! Thanks everyone.

              I this situation is there entitlement to compensatory standard of living type SS? I'm having difficulty understandig the difference between non-compensatory and copensatory.

              Comment


              • #8
                "Compensatory" refers to compensating someone for the negative effects that events during the marriage may have had on their financial prospects after the marriage. For instance, if Person A stayed out of the workforce to raise children while Person B was employed full-time, or if Person A switched jobs or moved in order to facilitate Person B's career, Person A may have diminished economic prospects when the marriage is over compared to Person B.

                The idea is that B should compensate A, because B's career success is partly the result of A's actions during the marriage. Or put another way, B's career is something that both parties invested in through contributions of time and flexibility during the marriage, so both parties should realize some benefit from it when the marriage is over and everything gets divided.

                How much B should compensate A is of course the million-dollar question (literally). At the moment, there are no hard and fast rules about how much spousal support should be awarded or under what circumstances.

                Compensatory does NOT refer to compensating someone for the decrease in standard of living which is inevitable after a divorce - when one household divides into two households, things are inevitably going to be tighter, and it's unreasonable for either party to expect that they will have all the luxuries they used to have as a single household. "Compensatory standard of living" sounds like a meaningless term to me.

                There is also non-compensatory spousal support, which is pretty rare - generally in case where there is no prospect that one spouse will ever be able to support him/herself (elderly, disabled, etc).

                Comment


                • #9
                  For a short marriage with kids...

                  Should be the midpoint amount for 2.5 years OR until the youngest is in school full-time (might be more than 2.5 years, not enough info provided).

                  Ten years is ridiculous don't humour that. The mom is capable of supporting herself once the kids are in school.

                  It's a divorce, not the damn lottery.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Non-compensatory support includes the case for looking after minor children until they are old enough to start school.

                    I paid this for 3 years for the same reason... In my case the mother would not be entitled for any other reason. She had two university degrees, ten years of experience in her field and was making the same salary as me until the child was born and she stayed home for two years before getting unhappy and decided to divorce me.

                    Once our son was in Grade 1 she was cut off immediately.

                    Spousal support, the new "maternity benefits"....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Non-compensatory spousal support is intended to meet the needs of the creditor spouse in having a transition to a lower standard of living even if they suffered NO loss just on the basis of "need".

                      For example.

                      Medical Doctor marries the medical secretary - they both works full-time and don't have any kids she makes ZERO sacrifices IN fact he cooks and cleans while she just works.

                      Does the medical secretary get spousal support YES!

                      Why you might ask?

                      Because the divorce acts says upon the divorce of the couple the judge must protect the spouse from the marriage and its breakdown.

                      So during the marriage the salaries were like this
                      Total Net Income 350,000$

                      After divorce:
                      Doctor: $325,000
                      Secretary: $25,000

                      So the breakdown had negative impact on the secretary so the judge will say you will get spouse support for 1/2 the length of the marriage approximately.

                      Then the question will be but HOW MUCH?

                      Non-compensatory was originally defined based on the OLD model of SS which was MEANS and NEEDs..... In english need means what you can't survive without out. In family law "need" means what you are accustomed to having...

                      So the medical secretary was accustomed to having a Bimmer, then she should still have that Bimmer etc.... so she will get enough money to do all that,

                      Its fraud, but its fraud protected by the system.....

                      __________

                      Non-compensatory support though generally ends upon the remarriage of the creditor though since she has new ATM (err... husband).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ^^^^ This is not typical. Your mileage may vary.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It may not be typical, but it happens.

                          My mileage was way worst.

                          If ex had her way, with family law as it is, I'd still be in my Mom's basement while she collected my entire salary in support & equalization.

                          Real fair.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stripes View Post
                            ^^^^ This is not typical. Your mileage may vary.
                            -Its not typical because sometimes the variations in salary are not so much
                            -Because some women dont realize they are actually entitled to spousal support "just because"
                            -normally there are children and the judge can always use some sort of additional effort by the mom as a crutch
                            -because if women get sole custody just can also use that as a crutch

                            the moral is that no matter what the lower income is going to get some spousal support 95% of the time there is ALWAYS a reason.

                            Comment

                            Our Divorce Forums
                            Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                            Working...
                            X