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  • Implied self harm

    Hello all,
    not sure what to make of this incident tonight. My ex has send me hostile and harrassing texts and emails on a regular basis since our son and I moved out. We have joint legal custody and he has EOW visitation. In recent months he has acquired a new job but has refused to provide a benefit card for our son, forcing me to pay out of pocket and has moved, without informing me of a new address, has changed the drop off pick up location without consulting me, has denied my request to see court ordered life insurance, has barred me from calling our son on his weekends, and refused to split the christmas holidays fairly, he was also convinced that I did not have a christmas for our son (which of course I did) and has sent me long texts ranting about it and calling me everyname in the book. He has been sending me angry and degrading emails and texts on a regular basis, about every 3-5 days, never about our sons welfare or to see how he is, just emails insulting me and how horrible I am. I have been limiting what I say to him and wont respond to any of those emails, I only respond to emails directly about an issue with our son and apprise him of any upcoming health issues or school issues. I have always provided him with access and have never denied a visit or been late at an exchange. I've never berated him and I have not asked for anything. However he also has a 15 year long battle with depression, sometimes taking his meds, sometimes not. He has gone into catatonic states before where he won't talk, communicate, move, etc. He will go off the radar if he's depressed and wont contact anyone for hours and no one will know where he is or able to locate him. Tonight his gf texted me very concerned and saying something was wrong, wanting to know if he had contacted me. I said he had left a voicemail but I didn't see it until after our son was in bed so I thought we'd just call in the morning. She said whe was calling the police as she thought something was wrong. I immediately called him and he answered, I tried to be careful and discreet about it, I asked him if he was ok, he said no, then he said yes, then he said no. I said we've been through this before and I can help him if he wants to talk, he said no, he doesnt want my help, or to talk to me, he just wants to make sure that I take good care of our son from now on, and that I'll always be there for him, then he began sobbing. I tried to calm him down, but he was just too hostile for that. I told him that if he's thinking of hurting himself its not worth it, we can get some counselling for everyones sake. He just kept repeating over and over that this is going to end and that I need to be a good mom to our boy. At that point I was alarmed at his distress, it seemed worse than the other times so I put him on the phone with our son, who's only 5, just to keep him on the line. I called the police on the other phone who were able to locate him because he was on his cell with our son. They found him at a hotel where he was planning on spending the night, 20 minutes from home. He went politely and peacefully with him however he made some concerning comments so they took him to a hospital for evaluation. When the police were at my house, they went through my phone and saw the texts and said that they appeared agressive and dangerous, and why haven't I reported them before. I said that in the past when I've reported him over incidents nothing was done and he came down on me worse, and vindictavely, I've been hoping to stay somewhat invisible in order to not inflame the situation. They told me however to get an incident number and to call my lawyer, particularly because he's supposed to have access next weekend. So my worry is first and foremost our son, who is only 5 years old. How can I let him just go to dads 6 days after what sounded like he was intending to hurt himself? However I don't want him to not have contact with his dad, I think it would make it worse. Can you ask the court for your ex to have /evaluation therapy and supervised visitation and no overnights in a situation like this until it feels safe? I cannot stomach the thought that I'm sending my 5 year old unprotected to someone who is not stable and capable of harm.

  • #2
    uggh when will people learn....paragraphs make things easier to read.

    To answer your question, he was at the hospital and evaluated, they never saw a reason to keep him (you never said that they kept him for 72 hrs) so there is no reason for you to keep your son from him by defying a court order. Talk to your lawyer before you do something like that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why are you calling your son on the father's weekends? Is 12/14 not enough contact that you feel you must encroach on what little time the father has?

      You don't sound like you are trying to be invisible. Your son has already almost lost a father, and I'm thinking you're hoping to end the little bit of contact that does exist.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Why are you calling your son on the father's weekends? Is 12/14 not enough contact that you feel you must encroach on what little time the father has?

        You don't sound like you are trying to be invisible. Your son has already almost lost a father, and I'm thinking you're hoping to end the little bit of contact that does exist.
        the only part that I agree to his that he has only EOW so she should let him him his time with his child. There is no reason to call on what little parenting time he gets.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, I disagree with the both of you. My girls enjoy a call at the end of the day to say hello and to wish them goodnight. It maintains the connection between both homes. We aren't talking about a 40 minute conversation, just a quick hello, i love you, good night.

          Their Dad calls my house every night. 12/14. Do I get upset saying he calls my house all the time? No.

          It is best for the kids to maintain open and easy access to both parents. He is just a little boy. Talking to his parent for a few minutes on the phone while with the other is helpful. I can't see how this impacts on Dad's parenting time at all. That is simply overreacting.

          Comment


          • #6
            Mama, I try very hard not to offer legal advice because I know so very little about it but do you have a lawyer? Can you ask him/her?

            I understand how you would worry very much about the boy being with his Dad if his Dad was suicidal. Obviously his behaviour was erratic enough that an hospital eval was warranted. Does he normally have his gf with him on visitation?

            Try to take responses here with a grain of salt. They simply want to see the boy visit with his Dad. I agree that it is very important to continue but not at the risk of your son's safety.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
              Mama, I try very hard not to offer legal advice because I know so very little about it but do you have a lawyer? Can you ask him/her?

              I understand how you would worry very much about the boy being with his Dad if his Dad was suicidal. Obviously his behaviour was erratic enough that an hospital eval was warranted. Does he normally have his gf with him on visitation?

              Try to take responses here with a grain of salt. They simply want to see the boy visit with his Dad. I agree that it is very important to continue but not at the risk of your son's safety.
              if the hospital thought he was a danger to himself or others they would have kept him. Not seeing that they did that. Asking a lawyer is the best thing to do instead of just deciding to defy a court order.

              Has the father ever been violent with the child, threatened him etc. If she thought he was suicidal then why put the child on the phone with his father when she was calling police?? Why let the child hear his father in that state??

              Comment


              • #8
                I do agree with that SOS and thought that was a poor choice to put the son on the phone if the Dad was distraught. I guess if she thought it would save the Dad's life, possibly I could understand..... It is hard because we weren't there at the time.

                Perhaps she will clarify what the hospital's actions were as it changes things some.

                I did also suggest she ask a lawyer. That way she can do what is legal and what is best for the son at the same time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  mama_pumpkin:

                  1. You have a police incident file#
                  2. You have a collection of abusive emails received from your ex
                  3. Your ex called you from a hotel and made remarks about harming himself

                  You have a responsibility to contact a lawyer and ensure your ex does not have unsupervised access to the child.

                  I would be suspect of a short intake examination at the hospital unless your ex was examined by a staff psychiatrist.

                  At the very least, a judge should set out clear terms for your ex regarding his behavior. Not unusual for parent to be ordered to get counselling before unsupervised access to children is allowed.

                  You owe it to your child to ensure he/she is going into a safe environment.
                  Last edited by arabian; 01-26-2013, 12:18 PM. Reason: forgot to put in body of post

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You can't make a diagnosis of your ex, only a health professional can.

                    If you have serious concerns, then you must take your evidence to court and request that if the current visitation schedule is to be maintained, then the father should have a mental health assessment and this be provided to the courts.

                    If you can not or will not go that far, then what he does on his weekends with his child is not your concern. You either have enough facts for a professional intervention, or you don't.

                    I am not taking sides, I am saying that if you want to achieve something you need facts, evidence, and the will to move forward with courts.

                    If you are feeling harrassed by his texts, then file a complaint. If you are not feeling harrassed, then you have no complaint. Don't file a complaint just because you can.

                    If you feel your child is in danger then you have a duty to follow up on this. If you know deep down that this is something your ex can work through, then let him live his life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by arabian View Post

                      You owe it to your child to ensure he/she is going into a safe environment.
                      Please, we all know what is happening here. Father wants to be with his kids. OP has him stuck on weekends and harasses him during that time. Even when he doesn't have the kids she is calling the cops to "help".

                      This is naked ploy to get sole custody. We've heard this crap before, "I'm too afraid to send my kid to my ex, better if they stay with me".

                      This is about a mother trying to twist the system to remove a father from his child's life. She needs to stop interfering. Kids don't need nightly calls from a mom who is trying to hurt them. Exes don't need police help. Mama needs to stop being a mama 1/7th of the time. Good for her, good for the ex, but most of all good for the kids.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        mama: Pay no attention to misogynistic remarks posted by Janus.

                        Safety and well-being of your child is of utmost importance. You are quite right, in my opinion, to be concerned.

                        Good luck

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Janus View Post
                          Please, we all know what is happening here. Father wants to be with his kids. OP has him stuck on weekends and harasses him during that time. Even when he doesn't have the kids she is calling the cops to "help".

                          This is naked ploy to get sole custody. We've heard this crap before, "I'm too afraid to send my kid to my ex, better if they stay with me".

                          This is about a mother trying to twist the system to remove a father from his child's life. She needs to stop interfering. Kids don't need nightly calls from a mom who is trying to hurt them. Exes don't need police help. Mama needs to stop being a mama 1/7th of the time. Good for her, good for the ex, but most of all good for the kids.
                          The mother already has sole custody, so that is not the motive. The only possible legal change here is to move to supervised custody.

                          Whether that is warranted is up to the courts, upon examining the provided facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mess- I don't have sole custody. I did not ask for it because at the time I felt that our custody order and parenting plan was very thorough and covered most of the issues we could reasonably encounter for the next few years at least, and I was willing to work with him or a parental coordinator over bigger issues. What I did not forsee was the harrassment I was going to be subjected to once we moved out. There was enough of that going on while we were under the same roof, but I believed the physical distance would take care of that.

                            Janus you have got to be kidding me. You are making some pretty great assumptions here as to what the situation is and singling me out that I harrass him, that could not be further from the truth. I was contacted by the GF who was frantic about his location. Something triggered him to behave the way that he did, which caused her to call the police first because she feared that he could hurt himself. I kept him on the phone to calm him down while the police could ping his cell and safely locate him. Talking to our son was the only thing that would have kept him on the line, and sorry, despite all the crazy in the last two years, I could not fathom hanging up on him and letting the chips fall where they may and not feel responsible if something worse happened. Had he not made 'suggestive comments' as the officer put it, to the police himself they wouldn't have taken him to the hospital at all.

                            However having said that, after hearing the distress he was in and getting the very clear impression that he was not intending on being around much longer, how can I just hand over a 5 year old with no assurance 5 days later? His moods range from intense hostility to great grief, with little inbetween, at least where it concerns me. I realise that there are a lot of upset parents in here who readily compare their spouses to anything they might read as a similar trait from someone who writes on these boards, but that needs to be separated and not judged as a whole. This is about a specific incident from a person with a history of depression long before our marital problems, not just my feeling creeped out and wanting sole custody. As noted, I already have him most of the time, realistically sole custody won't change much except making decisions such as what activities he currently participates in. Our order already includes a parenting plan which outlines schedules, religion, schooling, health concerns, extra curricular acitivities, etc. and involvement for making major decisions. I would not want to decrease his access or visitation overall, just have it supervised for a time until he was healthy. For the record, he has EOW because he refused the schedule I offered at mediation and court, which gave him mid week overnights access in addition to the alternating weekends, and all the PA days, since he said his work was flexible, extra weekends and extended summer holidays and stat holidays and a gradual increase in time as the child became older. Had he accepted he would have had about 40/60. He gave it all up with no explanation or reason why and now only has about 15/85.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Mama

                              For what it's worth I would not allow my son to go to his fathers while he is in this state. On the flip of a dime he could decide to take his life as well as your sons. His anger is directed at you because you left and not him. The party that leaves gets over separation much faster than the one who didn't.

                              I don't know your husband and neither does anyone here. You have to decide for yourself whether or not the safety of your son takes priority over some court order until you are able to discuss it with a lawyer. As a mom I know what I would do and it wouldn't be allowing my son at 5..10...15 to go into this kind of mental stress your husband is going through.

                              My son and my daughter-in-law have 2 children together and one she has from a previous relationship and he is the oldest. They get along great, my grandson calls both his bio dad and my son "dad". He has the best of both world and they all love him dearly as I do. Now that's what I call in the best interest of the child...he'll be 14 in July and my son has had him in his life since he was two.

                              My oldest sons girlfriend is divorced and she has one child, they have none together. Matthew spends one week with Dad and one week with Mom and that's how they like it. Mathew's dad calls every night to say goodnight when she has him and Mathew's mom call every night when dad has him.

                              I have never seen happier kids than these two. Parents don't fight, they get along...they are invited to each other's birthday parties ect. It can be done.

                              Obviously this is not for everyone and by the sound of your case I would NOT allow my son to go over to his fathers. If it was the mother who was sick again as a father I would NOT allow my son to go to his mothers.

                              I really don't think this is the appropriate time for anyone to get upset and say he has the right to see his child, or you are making it worse so he can't see him, or you called the police. They are not privy to your relationship with your husband or his anger/depression/suicide tendency...scarry.

                              L

                              Comment

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