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  • Child support, 5 years later?

    I have been legally separated from my exhusband for 5 years. We have a sep agreement that says we split custody 50/50 and share major expenses. As well as who pays for medical insurance, etc.

    Recently I have been having an increasingly difficult time getting my ex to agree to splitting major expenses. He won't split for shoes because I didn't get walmart brand, I bought Nike, etc. I have to ask permission to buy necessary things and he often refuses because there are cheaper brands.

    I didn't go for child support because we agreed these things would be easy. I make literally half what he makes - but I want our son to have good quality things.

    We only recently started the divorce process and have had it rejected twice at the final stage. The first time the judge wanted us to provide proof of income and written statement explaining by we avoided child support. Now, he rejected again saying I am entitled to between 200-400 per month for support.

    Due to the difficulty I am having attaining support for the things we agreed to split I am tempted. But want to avoid a lawyer because I absolutely cannot afford it - and he can. I also fear he will be vindictive and make a mess for me with CRA (I am self employed and an audit would be a mess for me as I'm not a great bookkeeper).

    What is the process at this point? Do I need a lawyer to get the child support and what else have I not considered? I'm absolutely lost in this process.

  • #2
    Originally posted by sms View Post
    IRecently I have been having an increasingly difficult time getting my ex to agree to splitting major expenses. He won't split for shoes because I didn't get walmart brand, I bought Nike, etc. I have to ask permission to buy necessary things and he often refuses because there are cheaper brands.

    shoes are needed. Not high brand names where that is what you pay for, the name. I have to agree with him on that one. Especially when kids are still growing.

    You want CS and he wont pay it then make him an offer for offset child support. You will want to get your books in order as he will ask for financials in order to figure out proper offset amount.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by sms View Post
      I have been legally separated from my exhusband for 5 years. We have a sep agreement that says we split custody 50/50 and share major expenses. As well as who pays for medical insurance, etc.

      Recently I have been having an increasingly difficult time getting my ex to agree to splitting major expenses. He won't split for shoes because I didn't get walmart brand, I bought Nike, etc. I have to ask permission to buy necessary things and he often refuses because there are cheaper brands.

      I didn't go for child support because we agreed these things would be easy. I make literally half what he makes - but I want our son to have good quality things.

      We only recently started the divorce process and have had it rejected twice at the final stage. The first time the judge wanted us to provide proof of income and written statement explaining by we avoided child support. Now, he rejected again saying I am entitled to between 200-400 per month for support.

      Due to the difficulty I am having attaining support for the things we agreed to split I am tempted. But want to avoid a lawyer because I absolutely cannot afford it - and he can. I also fear he will be vindictive and make a mess for me with CRA (I am self employed and an audit would be a mess for me as I'm not a great bookkeeper).

      What is the process at this point? Do I need a lawyer to get the child support and what else have I not considered? I'm absolutely lost in this process.
      If a judge has rejected your privately agreed-upon arrangement, that's probably because there's some unfairness to it. He's suggesting you use the method the vast majority of separating people handle things, to avoid the issues you already notice are cropping up. So your ex should hopefully agree that it needs to be done differently if the divorce is to go through.

      In 50-50 access situations, the CS is determined by calculating the table amount you would pay based on your income, and the table amount your ex would pay based on his income, and the difference between the two is what changes hands. Apparently this works out to several hundred dollars a month being paid from your ex to you. However, this would mean that each parent buys their own shoes, etc, for the kids instead of those expenses being shared. You wouldn't have to ask permission or argue over brands. The only things that don't fall under this offset CS would be truly extraordinary expenses, and are typically things like braces, university tuition, a pony, or enrollment in pricey activities. Those would have to be discussed ahead of time, and are shared in proportion to income (not 50-50).

      Even better and fairer (and I don't know why it isn't done more!), is the half-offset system. Think of it as you and your ex each putting CS amounts according to your incomes (from the CS table) into an account, and you each take out an amount in proportion to your access. In your 50-50 case you would each take out half. The overall effect is that the higher earner pays half the difference between the two table amounts to the lower earner.

      You don't need a lawyer to accomplish this. Just a reasonable ex who may be tired of arguing with you over shoe brands and having the judge reject the divorce application. You could even suggest the full offset method first (which is the common method) and let him negotiate you down to half that (which is the fairer method).

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds to me like you might not like being honest about your income....

        Comment


        • #5
          My income is completely traceable electronically and I supply everything to my accountant. I only fear an audit because I have only this past year mastered the art of proper tracking. An audit on my previous years will require calling service providers and utility companies for actual bills rather than just going on my bank account payments as I had done prior to knowing better. My income statements are not the issue (using H&R block as opposed to an actual accountant should have been scrapped sooner!)

          The biggest concern I have is the fighting to share expenses. He won't pay for birthday parties, or put his son in any extra-curric except swimming. He has health benefits through his work (only for dental - no eyes or orthodontics) but he wants me to pay half for the extra benefits if he gets them so they include eyes and orthodontics. Though it's in the sep agreement he's to pay for benefits. He was also supposed to pay for a flight for our son when I took him on a trip as my part of our credit card points. It was all I wanted from the HUGE amount of points we had. He didn't.

          I like the offset account thing - but I doubt he will cooperate. I have no issue providing all my tax information to get this sorted out but it's caused such a strain already - where he was barely cooperative before, he's completely uncooperative now. And now he's starting to drag things out of our child and putting him in the middle. We're meeting with a counselor at the school this week because our child has been acting out in anxiety.

          I guess my question at this point, is how do I initiate this process? Do I file a form, do I need a lawyer (which I can NOT afford), do I try a mediation first and what are costs/process involved with that? I have LOT of questions and not much money to pay for this guidance.

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          • #6
            Additionally, I don't WANT any money for me. I am happy to have this money somehow go into an account that I can draw from to buy our child's shoes, boots, snowsuits, activities, etc. I make my own money and always have. But given my taxable income is less than 25k/year and his is 60k - I really shouldn't be paying half in the first place.

            Comment


            • #7
              Most lawyers will offer a free one hour consult. It might be pragmatic for you to see one for the hour.

              Perhaps you should see FLIC at the court house if your in Ontario.

              Also, I'd look into alternative dispute resolution.



              With all due respect and understanding, if you allow the costs to divorce to keep you from a divorce, why would he care? He has been paying as he wishes for the last 5 years.... I know of someone who let this go on for 18 years. Total cost in the end was less than $5,000 and they received $65,000 lump sump. Good return on investment the last time i checked..

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              • #8
                That is an excellent point. I wish this all didn't scare me so much. Too much historical "people pleasing" that has no business in this process.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sms View Post
                  That is an excellent point. I wish this all didn't scare me so much. Too much historical "people pleasing" that has no business in this process.
                  Using individual therapy to help me set boundaries with my ex has helped me. Well worth the investment.

                  If you want to keep things "friendly" don't try to back date the rules. Basically, the past 5 years you tried your own support regime and it didn't work. Get a new set of rules going forward (standard table support and section 7), and manage your financial interactions with your ex within those rules.

                  Best of luck

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sms View Post
                    Additionally, I don't WANT any money for me. I am happy to have this money somehow go into an account that I can draw from to buy our child's shoes, boots, snowsuits, activities, etc. I make my own money and always have. But given my taxable income is less than 25k/year and his is 60k - I really shouldn't be paying half in the first place.
                    As others have said, your best course of action is to go for standard table rate child support, so that you have a reliable amount of money coming in and you don't have to argue about affording individual items.

                    That is what the kids deserve and it will be easier on both of you. You shouldn't be arguing about clothing costs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Excellent points again. I do have a therapy appointment for that next week.

                      I definitely won't go for back support. I just don't think that's fair. I did agree to this current arrangement and while it was borne of fear and lack of education on the topic (and poor boundaries), it was still a conscious choice. It just doesn't work anymore.

                      Thank you all!

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                      • #12
                        OH and to add insult to injury I will share this: We alternate claiming our son on our taxes, and every year I am entitled to child tax benefit - which I let him convince me was half his. I don't think it was malicious - he thought I was just getting it every year (though I only claim him every 2nd year) because I was the mom. I didn't see any reason to argue - it made sense. My accountant told me this past year that he doesn't get it on his years because he makes too much. So, basically, I've given him thousands of dollars in child tax, erroneously. Silly me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree with sms. You need brand name shoes like Nike, Adidas etc. Has anyone ever wore no name shoes? In my experience, I get a sore foot a lot faster than I would wearing a normal pair of shoes. The materials are lighter and softer.

                          That's just a fact. I have Adidas / Nike running shoes, so why should my son wear no names when I wouldn't wear them cause those nonames actually hurt when you go run in them. This has nothing to do with the brand but build quality.

                          Buying brand name clothes, I agree for the most part there isn't a huge difference in the quality of the fabric...but running shoes..c'mon people. Your little guy wears them EVERY day....and you're too cheap to buy him decent quality shoes?

                          Originally posted by sms View Post
                          Recently I have been having an increasingly difficult time getting my ex to agree to splitting major expenses. He won't split for shoes because I didn't get walmart brand, I bought Nike, etc. I have to ask permission to buy necessary things and he often refuses because there are cheaper brands.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FirstTimer View Post
                            I agree with sms. You need brand name shoes like Nike, Adidas etc. Has anyone ever wore no name shoes? In my experience, I get a sore foot a lot faster than I would wearing a normal pair of shoes. The materials are lighter and softer.

                            That's just a fact. I have Adidas / Nike running shoes, so why should my son wear no names when I wouldn't wear them cause those nonames actually hurt when you go run in them. This has nothing to do with the brand but build quality.

                            Buying brand name clothes, I agree for the most part there isn't a huge difference in the quality of the fabric...but running shoes..c'mon people. Your little guy wears them EVERY day....and you're too cheap to buy him decent quality shoes?
                            I tend to disagree... I buy Walmart shoes for everyone because the last two times I have bought Nike shoes they only lasted a couple months, especially the kids shoes. Walmart ones have lasted just as long if not longer. If they are going to last the same amount of time, why would I spend $100 per pair rather than $30?

                            Brand name doesn't mean better. All it means is you are paying for some other person to get richer because they have convinced you that their brand is superior

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sms View Post
                              OH and to add insult to injury I will share this: We alternate claiming our son on our taxes, and every year I am entitled to child tax benefit - which I let him convince me was half his. I don't think it was malicious - he thought I was just getting it every year (though I only claim him every 2nd year) because I was the mom. I didn't see any reason to argue - it made sense. My accountant told me this past year that he doesn't get it on his years because he makes too much. So, basically, I've given him thousands of dollars in child tax, erroneously. Silly me.
                              Not erroneously, and you haven't been 'giving him' anything- it isn't YOURS to give.

                              He is entitled to make a claim for it, not alternate years, but EVERY year. He may make enough money that he either gets a very small amount or none back on it, but he is very much entitled to make the claim. The money doesn't become yours simply because he makes too much. Yours is determined based on your income and situation as is his.

                              If anything, YOU have been erroneously claiming the full amount and may well owe thousands back to the government that you were not entitled to claim.

                              Sounds like you may need a new accountant who knows what they're doing.

                              Comment

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