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  • what to expect if the ex forces us to court?

    I will try to share the pertinent data with as little words (and emotion) as possible.
    I want input from you all who may have been through this so i can know what to expect.
    split up in 2005. my son was 9 months at the time.
    met with lawyers and drew up a plan - custody and visitation- she is the primary parent in that our son spends more than 40% of his time at her home and its his primary residence. My son is with me every other weekend plus an additional night each week. we also agreed to a support plan which my lawyers said was high but i agreed to because i wanted peace and to promote harmony.
    at that time we agreed to a payment of the table amounts based on my income as well as additional S7 amounts - the main one being for a full-time nanny. we agreed that we would discuss any additional costs in advance. We didn't sign that separation agreement while we considered reconciliation that never happened, but we lived by its arrangements.
    That was 2006.
    Through the years our relationship changed and my ex became unhappy with the diminishing amount of input she had into my life - i enforced more boundaries around last minute schedule changes and began asking for us to revisit the need or my contribution to a full time nanny when my son started full time school and she began working from home.
    In spring 2011 the ex presented me with a retroactive request for previously undisclosed and undiscussed Section7 payments. going back to 2006 - the very year we made the deal. The 'kitchen-sink' was in that request including amounts covered by the table amounts but also big increases in S7 expenses that had never been discussed or requested of me. The biggest amounts were that in 2006 and 2011 the nanny costs went from $25k a year to $40k.
    she is self-employed and runs her own business. She writes off large amounts of her income, keeps portions of her income in the company and as a result on paper looks like she makes significantly less than i do. To the effect that my portion of the costs fluctuates year to year between 68-75% of all S7 expenses.
    she works from home although claims she goes into the office. She works parttime flex hours as I know from a long history with her but she claims that she works fulltime and overttime.
    She is adamant about keeping the full time nanny even though she is home the majority of the time, works part-time from home and our son is in full time school.
    The net difference between what I paid her and she is claiming is $41k. I offered her $20k (money i dont have) to avoid the cost of lawyers. I told her that even though i didn't agree with her that id rather give her this money than giving it to a lawyer - at least it will more directly benefit my son and avoid the resentment of a court proceeding between his parents.
    She is saying no and wants it all or will take me to court.
    The truth is i don't even have the $20k. I have worked through the lawyers and I have told the ex that even if i wanted to I couldn't give her any more money.
    I have no assets - none.
    She owns two homes, one free and clear the other with a mortgage offset by renters, goes on two vacations a year, owns a car, shops at Holts and is still covered by my health plan through work (as is my son of course)
    I pay on average $31k per year in child support
    if she insists on going to court - what might happen? what is the worst case? and what would the court do to get money from a guy who has none nor any access to it?

  • #2
    I think 'Get Bent' is the most fitting response.

    1) You are only responsible for a share of CHILDCARE (not housekeeping/errands) and only for the period when child is not in school e.g. max 4 hours a day. Even at $20/hour (for 52 weeks x 5 days x 4 hours) that comes to $21k.

    2) Being self-employed, it is reasonable to look at the level of retained earnings in the company. Search for 'child support' + 'self-employed' + 'retained earnings' in www.canlii.org.

    3) If she has made no prior effort to communicate about these 'arrears' then she has little chance to pursue it now (this rule might be bent if the arrears were genuine and creating hardship)

    Comment


    • #3
      She is not paying her fair amount of section 7 because her income that you are using does not reflect her income in the same way that yours is calculated because she is self employed.

      I am self employed with no employees.

      My child support is not based on my personal return, of which all of my income comes from my company. My income for child support and section 7 is based on the net income of my company plus what I pay myself.

      All of my income is reported and all of my expenses are legit. However ANY expense that has a personal benefit, I add back to my income AND 'gross it up' (add back the tax savings that I received writing it off). These include home office (which I work out of exclusively), cell phone, car.

      When it is all done my expenses taken off my gross receipts is only about 10% and that is what I use for my income for CS purposes.

      This also means that if I retain money in my company, which is my choice, that is part of my CS income.

      This is how it should be done to compare someone who simply works and receives a T4. The CS tables were based on T4 income.

      If your wife used this fair method, her income would probably double for section 7 purposes.

      As for the rest of it - time to fire the nanny.

      Comment


      • #4
        thanks - already a huge help.

        i can use this input - thanks again.

        what kind of teeth does the law have in forcing payment of retroactive child support - my concern is if they garnish my wages - I wont be able to continue servicing credit cards/car payment

        Comment


        • #5
          So undisclosed, undiscussed going back 5 years? Yeah...right. Typically the max allowed is 3 years AND she has to show she was asking for them all along, otherwise it's go forward amounts.

          I'd indicate to her that you no longer agree to the requirement for a live in nanny, and that you no longer feel her presence is necessary given the age of the child and the fact they are in full time schooling. Indicate that after two more weeks, go forward the expectation is you will not be contributing to that cost.

          Ask for receipts for any section 7 expense and don't pay anything without it.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd disagree with refusing all nanny costs ... because it is reasonable for there to be some afterschool care costs. Throw her a bone, and offer maybe 1/4 of the cost from before he was in school (on the basis that care hours have been reduced to 1/4)... but split proportionately of course... so that would be 70% of $6.5K?

            Also *important* offer to provide care yourself. Suggest that to help accommodate her long working hours, it would be more appropriate to have an even weekday split i.e. you have Mon/Tues, she has Weds/Thurs, and Friday alternates with the weekends. Or, just offer the afterschool care.
            Last edited by dinkyface; 05-16-2012, 05:12 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              just a question,but why keep her on your health plan?Your son yes that`s what its for,but she doesn`t need to be on there.drop her off and let her look after herself..i think court will be a better result for you than her unrealistic demands

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like your ex is a reasonably well-informed businesswoman. I agree with many of the other posters about the self-employment and retained earnings. People who are fighting a self-employed ex or stbx would be best to get a lawyer who has some business sense, or failing that, talk to an accountant. NEVER take line 150 of a self-employed person's tax return as a number to use in determining child or spousal support.

                You say you offered your ex 20K to avoid going to lawyers but that you really didn't have the money. She probably knows this and is merely calling your bluff.

                Yours story has some inconsistencies and you haven't mentioned your income throughout the years. You also mentioned that you had lawyers help you negotiate your original agreement with her. You don't have any assets. Is it because you have them in someone else's name or is it because you haven't been as successful as your ex? 31K for one child for support indicates to me that you have a high income.

                Comment


                • #9
                  wow arabian, the guy makes 2 posts and already he is hiding income in someone else's name?
                  what planet are you from?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Billiechic why don't you CHILL OUT. I'm sure the "guy" RunningRocko understands why I'm asking the questions.

                    RunningRocko is obviously married to a smart woman who very well might be doing circles around him. If we can get more information then maybe we can help him out. I have 30+ yrs business experience. So shut the fuck up already.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by arabian View Post
                      Billiechic why don't you CHILL OUT. I'm sure the "guy" RunningRocko understands why I'm asking the questions.

                      RunningRocko is obviously married to a smart woman who very well might be doing circles around him. If we can get more information then maybe we can help him out. I have 30+ yrs business experience. So shut the fuck up already.
                      little over the top. Definatly not called for.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, most of her posts are. Definitely some pent up anger going on there.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I sense that I am not the first one to call arabian out on the over-the-top, bitter responses.

                          This forum isnt much help if you can't check your own emotional responses to listen to advice being given. Too bad this one feels she is informed enough to give advice herself. Getting to "senior member" will do that to some, even though it doesn"t mean much. Her 270ish posts mean nothing compared to other senoir members on here who have posts in the thousands.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am just awed by your insight and authority on everything. So I guess I just don't rate with someone like you who have thousands of posts. Wow, we should be so very honored that you have taken the time to tell us all how to fix our lives.

                            I mean WOW over 2,000 posts!!!! You must be total experts on everything! Your lives must be perfect by now! "we're not worthy" LOL..... so many posts...... my life is not complete unless I can be like you guys..... wow

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              I am just awed by your insight and authority on everything. So I guess I just don't rate with someone like you who have thousands of posts. Wow, we should be so very honored that you have taken the time to tell us all how to fix our lives.

                              I mean WOW over 2,000 posts!!!! You must be total experts on everything! Your lives must be perfect by now! "we're not worthy" LOL..... so many posts...... my life is not complete unless I can be like you guys..... wow
                              is this arabian person really necessary,this is supposed to be a place for good advice..something should be done about this trouble maker

                              Comment

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