Lawyer question

[tugofwar]

I was hoping for some feed back on how satisfied you are with your lawyer?
How many people can say they are very satisfied with the outcome or how well they are doing to present your case?
What type of lawyer do you have?
Im considering switching but not sure if it's wise right now so close but yet so far away.
I have a good understanding what I want right now I just need to produce it the way it is and thinking maybe a more assertive lawyer would suit my needs more right now as I want nothing more than to wrap this shit up and take it to the curb for garbage pick up, yesterday!

[blinkandimgone]

I'm not at the lawyer stage just yet but I did find this site when I was looking around for one:

LawyerRatingz.com - ON Lawyer Ratings

Lots of first hand feedback there and it's easy to find lawyers specifically in your area for feedback on their services.

[LostFather]

I was hoping for some feed back on how satisfied you are with your lawyer?
How many people can say they are very satisfied with the outcome or how well they are doing to present your case?
What type of lawyer do you have?
Im considering switching but not sure if it's wise right now so close but yet so far away.
I have a good understanding what I want right now I just need to produce it the way it is and thinking maybe a more assertive lawyer would suit my needs more right now as I want nothing more than to wrap this shit up and take it to the curb for garbage pick up, yesterday!

I've been through two going on almost 4 years, one was incompetent, the other, well spoken, but too laid back, forgetful, and did not want to go in my direction, his call, but everything I told him that we needed to clean up or take care of, he did not and in my humble opinion we got screwed on. However, it's a tough call and you have to be careful.

So, now I am going it alone, should have done it long time ago. Lawyers are there to make money, not hold hands, they stay removed from the clients and again in my opinion, no one knows your case better than you.

[Mess]

Any decision that gets made is your decision, the lawyer has to respect that and not try to talk you into something else.

Your decisions should be informed decisions, your lawyer's role is to be your primary (but not only) source of information. The should be able to present multiple options and pro's and con's for each option and it shouldn't take two hours to do it unless you have a really complex case.

I've run into situations, not just with lawyers but with any decision making, where staff presents one option, tells you how wonderful it is, and insists nothing else will work. This is not you making the decision, it is staff (and your lawyer is your staff). It is a tried and true manipulation tactic. My first lawyer did this over and over. Early on I was in a really bad emotional state and very confused and not informed, and I went along and wasted a lot of time and money and almost agreed to some very bad offers. Once I felt better and got informed and put my foot down, I found my lawyer was still indifferent to my decisions and I ended it with them.

My second lawyer respected my opinions, answered my questions fully, looked at both sides of every issue, and we got 2 hours work done in a half hour phone call. My separation agreement ended up being 90% exactly how I wanted, and the other 10% was due to my ex's obstinacy, not because my lawyer was pushing something on me that I didn't agree with.

You are the person who knows your life the best, knows your children best, knows your ex the best, knows your finances the best and knows your needs the best. You know where you want to be in 10 years, your lawyer probably doesn't care (the odd one really does though). The decisions are yours. If you don't feel your lawyer is working FOR YOU and helping you to make informed, balanced decisions, then walk away.

Your separation and divorce is something that will affect your life for years to come, even if you don't have kids. Just because someone has a degree doesn't mean they should be making decsions for you.

As far as court and trial goes, your lawyer is the expert, or at least should be. As far as your life goes, you are the expert.

Edit to add: What I wrote above should be a no-brainer for any lawyer who wants to do the best for their clients. Why aren't they all like that? Yeah, for some it is milking you. But it is also their ego, their aggressive personality and forceful negotiating that is a habit and they use it on you instead of just the other lawyer. It is them thinking they are right and knowledgable and informed and they know best and it is them thinking things will be so much simpler and easier if you let them do the work and do a paint-by-numbers divorce. There are a ton of reasons why lawyers aren't perfect, but the main one is their egos, which is built into them in order to get through law school and articling, that makes them think they are know-it-alls.

If you can find a lawyer that listen as well as they talk, then you are halfway there. It is also up to you to take control of your file and not let them run it into the ground.

[tugofwar]

Thanks for being able to write what I have been thinking and feeling.
I will no longer wait around, he knows my story, my life, experienced my ex and his irrational attitude. I just want this done and over and we are pretty close to the finish line at least with all this bullshit and go on with our lives. We are both wanting totally different things and ex needs desperately to get my name off the house so he can further his business adventures.
So, Im left now, stepping up to the plate and going to push what I want and give him what he so desperately wants. And if it's not worth the fight then it will be over soon. Only time will tell everyone's true intentions in this complex situation

[kaydee]

1) find a lawyer who understands how emotional this whole process is and lifts you up - you will need encouragement to keep going.
2) find a lawyer who is available, don't hire one who works less than 5 days a week, fulltime.
3) if you are pretty sure you are heading for trial, get the best trial lawyer you can find! Do not go to trial unrepresented!
4) if you want to or have to change a lawyer closer to "the end", your former lawyer can speak to the new lawyer and fill them in on your case.

DO NOT feel like you have to stay with a lawyer that isn't a good fit! You will have to check out many lawyers to see which one feels right to you and has the expertise your case needs. Some lawyers, after hearing 1/2 of your story "gets it" and understands what you need, other lawyers don't give a crap or are just not good lawyers and you will just get frustrated...don't feel like you have to stay with a lawyer you are not happy with - it is just not worth it!

always try to get the very best one you can afford. Some lawyers will agree to a "limited retainer"-- basically that means that you represent yourself but you have the support and guidance of a lawyer - and they may step in to assist when necessary, depending on your agreement with them.

[tugofwar]

New Lawyer question- how can you find out more information about how they bill?
My ex got new lawyer just before conference, (have to reschedule urrr) my lawyer composed letter to ex lawyer saying if he needs any information that my lawyer can provide documents etc. WHO IS GOING TO BE BILLED FOR THAT? IM SURE I AM... That's not fair! Not my fault ex got a lousy lawyer.
My lawyer also wants to schedule a meeting of the lawyers to address the issues.... WHO GETS CHARGED FOR THAT?
Since I will most likely be paying, can I control how long the meeting is and what is to be discussed?
I emailed my lawyer with a concern from my last bill stating that I was charged for a voicemail ex left my lawyer and a letter my lawyer composed to his and was not aware of the whole ordeal until the bill.
Is there somewhere you can go or find out more about how lawyers bill? Is there a general inquiry with the society of law (i think that's the name but not sure)
2nd part- when does conflict of interest happen with representation? What are some terms or conditions that apply?

[logicalvelocity]

Your ex's file with the previous lawyer belongs to your ex. The onus is on them to collect and most likely pay their final bill or maybe not. Strangely, they had additional retainer to secure the new representative.

Rather than have your representative respond to these trivial expensive maneuvers...why not make a complete copy yourself of your records utilizing 'Staples' or equivalent that mimics the CR and provide complimentary copy to them.

The cost of copying is far less than what your representative will bill for periodic requests from the other side. Saves unnecessary grief, expense and preserves your focus on the important issues.

Complaints can be made to the society but to me it's basically starting another fire which you will have to attend to along with your current action.

I guess what I'm saying is control the situation to your advantage.

Mess, also stated something to the effect previously:

Any decision that gets made is your decision, the lawyer has to respect that and not try to talk you into something else.

[tugofwar]

How nice of my lawyer to offer him the copies. How do I go about approaching my lawyer with my concern about my billings and the meeting he wants to set up with new lawyer. Can I set a time for the meeting and be advised before hand and discuss this with my lawyer? Im so sick of wasting money on this back and forth nonsense. Do I feel that maybe this meeting would be beneficial? Yes, but would it not be better that we have a four way meeting instead?

[logicalvelocity]

I think I would go with the all parties and reps meeting and I would give a complimentary copy of the file to the other side during the meeting. I would also keep a copy. Never know something may get settled. I think it conveys a clear message you're wise to their expensive games. I would also serve an offer to settle at this time outlining position. Whatever you do, Take charge, be assertive ... your legal rep works for you.

[Mess]

I agree a four way meeting is best. Your lawyer and his lawyer aren't getting divorced, they can't reach a settlement, they can't inform each other. They both know the law. What is to discuss between them only? There are some possibilities but hardly an hour's worth. The advantage to four way, to me, is that your ex is telling his lawyer some lies/exagerations and is getting weird advice back because of that. With all of you there at once it's harder to bullshit. If you and the ex are there you can respond to any ideas or offers immediately. If there is no movement, then this is about the best effort you could have made to try to negotiate, at least in a short time frame.

Read about some negotiation skills and styles beforehand and think about where you are going with this. First of all you have to identify what the conflict is, or a list of them, and keep that central on the table and don't get distracted. The conflict is not that he is a jerk. (Yes he is but stay with me..) That conflict can't be resolved or negotiated, so just set it aside and ignore it. Keep the conflicts that you can resolve on the table and don't get caught up in bullshit distracting you or you will be there all week. Have a list of things to resolve, keep that list in front of you, check off each one when you have an agreement or decide to skip if for a while if you aren't getting there. Having that list to keep you focused is important, I'm not kidding.

Usually styles are broken down to 5 options: Competitive; Collaborative; Compromising; Accomodating; Avoiding. These are important to think about.

• Competitive means a hard sell and you want it all and won't bend. This is usually the first offer we send out, but we forget the sales pitch. Competitive doesn't just mean being aggressive, it means trying to convince and giving persuasive reasons why it is better. The real identifier is that it is what YOU want or what YOU feel is right for everyone, and you are selling that. This is the style you open with.
• Collaborative means you work together to make a better situation. You two can't agree on who gets the pie, you don't want to split it, so you bake another pie. You can't agree on what show to watch so you buy a second TV. This is collaboration, it isn't competing, it is making more to go around. It is more work, it is looking at a longer view, not right now but maybe what you can both do over 5 years. If the argument is about money, how can you both make more money so there is more to go around. Maybe one has to pay off debts, the other should get another college certificate and a better job. This style means asking what they need (not what they want, what they want is the Competitive) and figuring out ways to get there for both of you. Collaboration should be your second style after you make your Competitive pitch.
• Compromise means you can't bake two pies, so you split what is there. You come down a bit with your offer, he comes up a bit. For this to work you have to be honest and come out and say it: We can't fix this so we have to compromise. Be clear about how far you can come down and where you will put your foot down and say no. The advantage here is that it will be over, you are saving legal fees and stress and other costs of dragging this out, so use that savings to make an offer.
• Accomodating is what you do if you are the day before the trial, it looks like you will lose, and his last offer, or even his Competitive "I want it all" offer starts to look better than a trial result. You are not in that position, there is no reason why you should be accomodating.
• Avoiding is avoiding the situation, plain and simple. If you take the step to have a four way meeting, you are not wanting to avoid. One sneaky way people avoid is to make a Competitive offer that is so outrageous that it shuts down negotiations and then everyone sits in a stalemate. Another way is to just not show up, or not bother answering for 6 months. Avoiding is probably what he has been doing up until now. Getting to the table is a good sign.

Think about these styles and how they apply to your issues. Make sure you have your list of issues, make it an agenda for the meeting, make sure your lawyer knows that this is the agenda and you are sticking to it. If you get distracted with insults, ignore them and calmly return to the agenda. Have your different style of offer ready for each item. Be ready to compete, offer collaboration and offer compromise on each, or else know where you won't compromise and be firm. If it all goes south then you can be clear with the judge that you made a good effort and he wasn't co-operative.

[tugofwar]

Thank you so much for your responses. We drafted up an offer to settle, but my lawyer didn't feel it was a good time to propose it as he felt the new lawyer needed time to do his study of our case.
I agree, I can't see what they can come up with on their own and what will be discussed how long etc. I think I would have more control if we were present.
His new lawyer, might be a good thing or a bad thing. He can make suggestions to what to do and how to do it but my ex doesn't take that extra step and he looks worse then if he didn't do it.
So, say by chance we have a meeting, all goes fairly well, and with some miracle able to resolve this, is it drafted up on the court papers like an offer to settle and presented to the courts for endorsement? I am awaiting a rescheduled conference and want to be done with all this sson.

[AtALoss]

PM me and I could give a referal if you have not found yet or still want to change.

[billiechic]

TUg, I think you need to insist on a 4 way meeting. I know you are ready to settle and he should be too. Plus, you can take care of that conflict of interest question...

[logicalvelocity]

I think I would also address the 'costs paid by the parties to date' on the table. More or less reality check for some or all settlement and levels the field.