Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-04-2020, 12:44 PM
enchantedowl enchantedowl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 3
enchantedowl is on a distinguished road
Question Intentionally Underemployed

Ex completed a university degree during the relationship, prior to the marriage. During the marriage, the Ex refused to work (claimed to be "too good" for entry-level jobs), then pursed more education, and tried to do freelance, but did not succeed. Separated for several years, during which time the Ex either didn't work or worked part-time. Claims that there are no job opportunities and that Covid is making it hard to find employment (has been unemployed for over a year). The regional unemployment rate is the same as in the rest of the province.

What is needed for me to substantiate that this person is intentionally underemployed?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-04-2020, 09:00 PM
standing on the sidelines standing on the sidelines is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 5,641
standing on the sidelines is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enchantedowl View Post
Ex completed a university degree during the relationship, prior to the marriage. During the marriage, the Ex refused to work (claimed to be "too good" for entry-level jobs), then pursed more education, and tried to do freelance, but did not succeed. Separated for several years, during which time the Ex either didn't work or worked part-time. Claims that there are no job opportunities and that Covid is making it hard to find employment (has been unemployed for over a year). The regional unemployment rate is the same as in the rest of the province.

What is needed for me to substantiate that this person is intentionally underemployed?
I wonder if the fact that before and during marriage the ex didnt work or worked sporadically may be a factor in this. To me intentionally underemployed means they had a high paying job that they quit and took another job that they made less money at. In your case it seems like your ex never really had a meaningful full time job.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-05-2020, 09:40 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,460
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

This case: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/do...&resultIndex=1

Is the one my husbands judge said was the threshold.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-08-2020, 01:23 PM
enchantedowl enchantedowl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 3
enchantedowl is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the info and the link to the canlii case, much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-14-2020, 11:35 AM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 138
pinkHouses has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

In the case posted the respondent was employed (skilled labor) and decided to go back to school. Also the respondent appeared to have their wages held back to reduce their child support burden.

What if they were not working as in the OPs case?
What if they decided to be an at home parent for a few years before separation?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-21-2020, 10:48 AM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 138
pinkHouses has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

It should be noted that the judge imputed the minimum wage for that year upon the respondent.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-25-2020, 01:22 PM
JCOakville JCOakville is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 3
JCOakville is on a distinguished road
Default

Linking onto this. My ex is 100% shareholder in a Corporation that made over $747,000 in 2019, he is a journeyman carpenter and decides how much he pays himself. Which is nothing from January to august most years. He has an apprentice who he pays an hourly wage of over $22... as per the union.

If I have job postings that show he should be paying himself at least 70-90000 a year, would this qualify as under employed? He has been paying himself less and less each year, 2017 30000 2018 11902 and no NOA for 2019 as of yet.

Thoughts? I am self represented but have all his general ledgers, shareholder accounts and most of his T2 and T1's.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-25-2020, 01:53 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,460
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

See the case I posted above. You may also want to search canlii for income and shareholder key words. Have you spoken to a lawyer or even a forensic accountant to determine his annual income? Those questions may help as well.

While his corporation has gross income there may be other things he puts money into that reduces the amount or he may be investing in a longer term program for his retirement. Just because he has the money doesnt mean you can dictate how much he should be paying himself. There could be limits on shareholder withdrawals.

Best too to look at what he was paying himself while you were married if the same employer was in place. That would be an indicator as well.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-25-2020, 04:17 PM
JCOakville JCOakville is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 3
JCOakville is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank you, we were married in 1998 and divorced in 2011. Much has changed since then - but we are still pretty much amicable, but not when it comes to the child support and his Incorporation.

I have filtered through CanLII which is a great resource, so thank you again for directing me with more words to search for.

While I have your knowledgeable eye, should I be citing these cases for my Case Meeting brief? Or save it for another time?

We are under the New Covid Family Protocol.. since we have been adjourned since March for a first appearance, we are directed by Section 40 to waive the first appearance before a clerk, to a initial case meeting with a Judge - just waiting to see what that will look like. Fun times!

Thank in advance for any feedback/direction/sheesh woman you're nuts.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-25-2020, 04:58 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,460
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Im not sure how cases are referenced for conferences but knowledge on his income would be helpful. This is where a forensic accountant could help or even just someone who specializes in income from a sole owner corporation. The problem you have is arguing he should be paying himself more. He could argue because he is a sole owner he has to protect his retirement. This isnt simply a case of purposeful underemployment. He is sheltering his company income. That is corporate tax and law rather than just simple family law.

I definitely recommend you do some research on corporate ownership and income (or whatever the relevant terms are) and speak to an accountant and corporate lawyer if necessary. If it costs you $1000 to do that and you end up with an additional $1000 per year of support for your kids then it is worth it and you will have the knowledge for future years and other trouble he may start.

A lot of businesses incorporate for legal protection outside of family law.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
child support, spousal support, underemployed


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Unrepresented w/ mental disability, ex is claiming I'm intentionally "under-employed" Looking_Forward Divorce & Family Law 1 03-08-2020 10:42 AM
Ex is intentionally underemployed? kitcanapple Financial Issues 16 07-04-2011 08:11 PM
underemployed & mobility question blinkandimgone Financial Issues 2 05-08-2010 04:46 PM
mat.home intentionally deteriorate tugofwar Financial Issues 4 03-05-2010 11:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:03 PM.