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  • spousal support, I need your advice please

    I have a question regarding spousal support....

    - were married for 12 years, separated now for 6yrs +
    - supported her for a collage diploma for two years within the 6yrs (her income imputed to 6,000 for that time)
    - the remainder of that time, her income imputed to 20,000 (not even minimum wage)
    - now spousal is up for review, and I think I was not even paying mid-range in the six years, but high range instead ( and I don't know why and didn't get the right advice back then for my lawyer I guess )

    - what do you think I should do?
    - she now works 8 hours a week
    - there is no reason she couldn't work full time
    - we might enter mediation
    - will the judge STILL assume high range?????????????
    - what makes a case high range, why!???????????????

  • #2
    I am by no means an expert or even knowledgeable on the issue of SS. But my personal view on the matter is the following:

    You were married for 12 years, separated for 6. You have supported her for 1/2 the length of the marriage. She now works full-time. Its time to cut her loose and I personally feel she should no longer be entitled to any spousal support. It was a marriage, not a prison sentence.

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    • #3
      LovingDad1234, thank you

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      • #4
        You are welcome. I am sick and tired of hearing about people treating supports as a "lottery win". The marriage is over. The decision has been made to go from 2 incomes to 1. Both need to deal with it. She is CHOOSING to be underemployed and most lawyers would fight that vigorously.

        You paid for 6 years which is 1/2 the length of the marriage. She is educated and can work 40 hours per week like the rest of us. No more free rides!

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        • #5
          Do you have children? Did your ex stay home to take care of them? Where do they currently live?

          In other words, did she permanently sacrifice her earning opportunities to raise your children?

          During your marriage of 12 years, in how many of those years was she employed on a full time basis? Did you, as a couple, organize your finances under the assumption that you were (and would continue to be) the sole source of income?

          Do you have evidence that she can work full time? Or just a strong feeling? 8 hours a week is barely even part time work, what makes you think she can handle 40?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by LovingDad1234 View Post
            She now works full-time.
            She works 8 hours a week.

            It was a marriage, not a prison sentence.
            If you buy an expensive car, the payments are not a prison sentence, they are the financial consequences of choices made.

            Having a stay at home wife is like buying an expensive car. It costs a lot of money even after it is no longer shiny and attractive. If you don't want the payments, don't buy the car.

            I honestly don't get the concept of a spouse who does not work. Children are dependents. Adults should not be dependents unless they have some disability. However, if you choose to marry somebody who does not or cannot work, it is not exactly reasonable to complain about your choice later. Nobody forced you to get married.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Janus View Post
              Do you have children? Did your ex stay home to take care of them? Where do they currently live?
              2.... 16 and 18 yrs, with her

              Originally posted by Janus View Post
              In other words, did she permanently sacrifice her earning opportunities to raise your children?
              During your marriage of 12 years, in how many of those years was she employed on a full time basis? Did you, as a couple, organize your finances under the assumption that you were (and would continue to be) the sole source of income?
              she worked part time when the kids started to go to school, maybe for one year she did that until we separated and she started school

              Originally posted by Janus View Post
              Do you have evidence that she can work full time? Or just a strong feeling? 8 hours a week is barely even part time work, what makes you think she can handle 40?
              why would somebody with 'children' being 16 and 18 and healthy not be able to work like we all do?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tmsrtl View Post
                2.... 16 and 18 yrs, with her
                Wait, you guys have been married for 12, but possibly you have been together longer than that?

                Let's assume 20 years. Of those 20 years, in how many of those was she employed full time?

                why would somebody with 'children' being 16 and 18 and healthy not be able to work like we all do?
                Perhaps because she has been out of the work force for nigh 20 years?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Janus View Post
                  Let's assume 20 years. Of those 20 years, in how many of those was she employed full time?

                  Perhaps because she has been out of the work force for nigh 20 years?
                  married for 12yrs, maybe one more year living together before... so no, not 20yrs :-)

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                  • #10
                    So when the kids were born, you guys lived in different houses for the first 5 years of their life?

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                    • #11
                      no Janus.....

                      ~1 year before marriage, +12 years, + 6.5 years seperated

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tmsrtl View Post
                        no Janus.....

                        ~1 year before marriage, +12 years, + 6.5 years seperated
                        Haha, yes, that's right.

                        Sorry

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                        • #13
                          So, of those 13 years, in how many of those did she work full time?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Janus View Post
                            So, of those 13 years, in how many of those did she work full time?
                            before the kids were born.... 2 years let's say..... and 1 part time when the kids school started

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                            • #15
                              ok, I can answer some stuff now

                              1) Why spousal support

                              Strong compensatory reasons. She essentially sacrificed her ability to produce income in order to take care of the children of the marriage. You made no such sacrifice.

                              This income reduction is permanent. Her income will be forever lower than it would have otherwise been because, as a couple, you guys decided that this was a reasonable thing to do. Your income is forever higher than it would otherwise be because she stayed home and allowed you to increase your income earning potential.

                              2) How long is fair?

                              In some ways, "fair" might be some level of spousal support for the rest of your life. As I said, the effects of your decisions as a couple hurt her permanently, and helped you permanently. It is tough to fully compensate for that.

                              Luckily for you, you probably won't be paying SS for life, but once that SS stops, you will be in a much better position than she is. Is that fair?

                              3) Why high range?

                              She has the kids. Mid range SS would be for parents with shared custody or shorter marriages, or marriages that were less "traditional". Your marriage checks off all the boxes for spousal support.

                              4) Why can't she work full time?

                              Because she has not done so for over a decade. It is a tough transition.

                              I'll have you know that I agree with you on this, but the courts often see women who have been out of the workface as incapable of holding a full time job. A court will likely find that your proposed jump from 8 to 40 hours a week is unreasonable. Consider a gradual step up (via imputed income) over a few years.

                              5) But I put her through school!

                              Her income would have likely been imputed at that low level anyway. Unless you paid for her tuition on top of the high end spousal support, she put herself through school.

                              6) What should I do?

                              Consider proposing a 5 year plan to terminate spousal support. She slowly increases her hours, and your SS responsibilities slowly drop. 5 years is a long time and she will probably agree.

                              Note that in 5 years she will likely still have a lousy income, (because, as I said, you permanently screwed her over in terms of income potential), so your goal is to have a fixed SS termination date. It doesn't matter how far in the future it is, you just want a fixed date.

                              Comment

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