Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OCL Recommendations

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OCL Recommendations

    I understand fighting OCL recommendations is an uphill battle, however, I just received ours back and legitimately one of the items is that my ex continue his therapy with a specific therapist.

    How is this a thing? What happens if he stops? Can I have this written into an agreement?

    Anyone with similar experience?

  • #2
    Originally posted by notenoughtape View Post
    I understand fighting OCL recommendations is an uphill battle, however, I just received ours back and legitimately one of the items is that my ex continue his therapy with a specific therapist.

    How is this a thing? What happens if he stops? Can I have this written into an agreement?

    Anyone with similar experience?
    What's the concern for your ex, is he abusive towards you or your children? What OCL recommends?

    Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by notenoughtape View Post
      I understand fighting OCL recommendations is an uphill battle, however, I just received ours back and legitimately one of the items is that my ex continue his therapy with a specific therapist.

      How is this a thing? What happens if he stops? Can I have this written into an agreement?

      Anyone with similar experience?
      I was just in a meeting with my lawyer yesterday about this exact topic- what could happen at the OCL disclosure meeting.

      First thing- has your assessor drafted a report? Apparently it's common they don't draft the report before the disclosure meeting.

      If their recommendation is favourable to you- you can request that a report be drafted. Then that report can be used down the road in case your ex doesn't continue therapy, etc etc.

      How was your disclosure meeting?

      Comment


      • #4
        He is not toward the children, but he is currently on probation for charges surrounding stalking/harassment etc. that occured just last year (2.5 years after divorce).

        He continually maintains to lawyers etc that he cannot handle face to face interaction with me and so one of the recommendations is exchanges happen at school to minimize this.

        Ultimately in OCL opinion since the kids are thriving and do not know of any of the issues between us (they are little, 7 and 5) that the status quo of joint parenting continues but he needs to have his continued therapy.

        To me it just feels like a cop out. With help he can handle our situation, but when he doesn't have help he has no boundaries - so what happens when he stops?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by notenoughtape View Post
          He is not toward the children, but he is currently on probation for charges surrounding stalking/harassment etc. that occured just last year (2.5 years after divorce).

          He continually maintains to lawyers etc that he cannot handle face to face interaction with me and so one of the recommendations is exchanges happen at school to minimize this.

          Ultimately in OCL opinion since the kids are thriving and do not know of any of the issues between us (they are little, 7 and 5) that the status quo of joint parenting continues but he needs to have his continued therapy.

          To me it just feels like a cop out. With help he can handle our situation, but when he doesn't have help he has no boundaries - so what happens when he stops?
          If he doesn't want to interact with you directly then I don't see where the problem is. You both can use Our Family Wizard or emailing for children's issues purpose.

          Pick up/drop off at school is the best, this is what most of us use for transfer exchange the children. What location you're using when school is closed?

          I would be more concerned on how to protect and foster children's relationship with the other parent than blaming him for the marriage breakdown or anything else which you may think is not "working" in your interest or advantage. I would put children's best interest first and nothing else, not mine, not her, no grandparents, no one else.

          Just curious, did you press charges against him? You're pretty vague when you're saying "surrounding stalking/harrassment etc", how long his probation is and on what conditions? This info is important and it may affect his capability to access his children if the probation order is not properly amended by a family court order to allow him to get the children directly from you.

          Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
            I was just in a meeting with my lawyer yesterday about this exact topic- what could happen at the OCL disclosure meeting.

            First thing- has your assessor drafted a report? Apparently it's common they don't draft the report before the disclosure meeting.

            If their recommendation is favourable to you- you can request that a report be drafted. Then that report can be used down the road in case your ex doesn't continue therapy, etc etc.

            How was your disclosure meeting?
            Disclosure meeting was disappointing. I applied for sole decision making and generous access because every decision that we need to make ends up being a battle that drags out for weeks, even if and when an item is Court Ordered (we have been in this process for 2 years, and certain items have been resolved) he always disputes and forces my hand to choose whether or not the battle is worth the legal fees.

            I asked for generous access based on his availability. He works out of town and kids are cared for by multiple individuals after school who end up making them dinners, doing homework, taking them to lessons, etc. all while I work locally and am available locally.

            He has a no contact/probation order with me from stalking post divorce. He was abusive in our marriage. I never went to the police for the physical stuff because I was scared and had no money to leave, but he has admitted it all via emails and facebook messages, not only to me but to kids teachers, etc.

            It actually just makes zero sense to me why OCL believes that we can have joint parenting decisions when there is clearly this pattern. She simply stated that because they are doing well in school and because they are not aware of any conflict between Mommy and Daddy that we are both doing a great job together.....

            But then she threw in this therapy thing, so obviously is concerned in some way?

            I'm just not sure if it is worth the legal costs to fight, if I can get a extremely detailed parenting plan down but all the same, even OCL sees he isn't stable without help, so maybe it is worth blowing holes through this recommendation.

            There is no written report yet, Dad wants it because he believes the outcome to be in his favor because it is essentially status quo.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by paco View Post
              If he doesn't want to interact with you directly then I don't see where the problem is. You both can use Our Family Wizard or emailing for children's issues purpose.

              Pick up/drop off at school is the best, this is what most of us use for transfer exchange the children. What location you're using when school is closed?

              I would be more concerned on how to protect and foster children's relationship with the other parent than blaming him for the marriage breakdown or anything else which you may think is not "working" in your interest or advantage. I would put children's best interest first and nothing else, not mine, not her, no grandparents, no one else.

              Just curious, did you press charges against him? You're pretty vague when you're saying "surrounding stalking/harrassment etc", how long his probation is and on what conditions? This info is important and it may affect his capability to access his children if the probation order is not properly amended by a family court order to allow him to get the children directly from you.

              Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
              Yes, I reported to police. He was charged but we had the order was amended to allow exchanges and proximity at school events, etc.

              The kids have never been exposed to any of that stuff by me, and that was part of her finding of us doing a good job. I'm down for the family wizard.

              On the non school days we exchange at each others homes without issue, just let kids out of car and they carry their things up the driveway to the door, there is no contact.

              Again, my concern lies around this therapy thing. How can that be enforced like shared holidays, etc. or is just on paper to be on paper?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by notenoughtape View Post
                Yes, I reported to police. He was charged but we had the order was amended to allow exchanges and proximity at school events, etc.

                The kids have never been exposed to any of that stuff by me, and that was part of her finding of us doing a good job. I'm down for the family wizard.

                On the non school days we exchange at each others homes without issue, just let kids out of car and they carry their things up the driveway to the door, there is no contact.

                Again, my concern lies around this therapy thing. How can that be enforced like shared holidays, etc. or is just on paper to be on paper?
                We're all doing mistakes, more or less, don't get me wrong, I'm not crediting anyone for being abusive, this is completely wrong. What happened between both of you before it's done, it's on the past and it should stay there.
                I would work with him patiently to find the best way for parenting, believe me anything less than 50/50 is leading to alienation by the custodial parent. You both should focus on parenting, nothing else. If OCL recommends counseling or therapy (be careful these are completely two different things) then he should do it and it should be specified in detail (which therapist or counselor, for how long and the outcome periodic reports), also you both should use a parenting coordinator to enforce the parenting plan or to resolve any parenting issues. By doing that you save lots of headaches down the road, you don't need to go all the time to the court for parenting issues. That's my thought.

                Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by paco View Post
                  We're all doing mistakes, more or less, don't get me wrong, I'm not crediting anyone for being abusive, this is completely wrong. What happened between both of you before it's done, it's on the past and it should stay there.
                  I would work with him patiently to find the best way for parenting, believe me anything less than 50/50 is leading to alienation by the custodial parent. You both should focus on parenting, nothing else. If OCL recommends counseling or therapy (be careful these are completely two different things) then he should do it and it should be specified in detail (which therapist or counselor, for how long and the outcome periodic reports), also you both should use a parenting coordinator to enforce the parenting plan or to resolve any parenting issues. By doing that you save lots of headaches down the road, you don't need to go all the time to the court for parenting issues. That's my thought.

                  Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
                  I am in agreement, an extremely detailed parenting plan with minimal room for missteps is ideal. The main issues stemmed intially from an agreement that vaguely stated shared holidays without outlining them all and then Dad refusing to veer from week about schedule regardless of Holidays (he kept them on Mothers Day even because it was "his" time, etc.)

                  Further to that, as he works out of town, the children's after school time at their Dad's house is actually spent at the after school care program (I use this too) and then a babysitter who facilitates dinners, extra curriculars etc. Or he chooses to go on vacation for a week without notifying me and gives the children to a third party caregiver instead of extending the opportunity for me to care for them.

                  He should absolutely have generous time with them, but if he is not spending it with them, than how is 50/50 best for kids when they are actually 50 with someone else?

                  And if I do not argue it and detail out a plan now with first right of refusal etc, is it also fair to stipulate that he follow the recommendation of continued therapy. The wording was therapy and it is a an individual therapist who helps with addictions, sex therapy, etc. No timeline was outlined but the therapist was named.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by notenoughtape View Post
                    I am in agreement, an extremely detailed parenting plan with minimal room for missteps is ideal. The main issues stemmed intially from an agreement that vaguely stated shared holidays without outlining them all and then Dad refusing to veer from week about schedule regardless of Holidays (he kept them on Mothers Day even because it was "his" time, etc.)

                    Further to that, as he works out of town, the children's after school time at their Dad's house is actually spent at the after school care program (I use this too) and then a babysitter who facilitates dinners, extra curriculars etc. Or he chooses to go on vacation for a week without notifying me and gives the children to a third party caregiver instead of extending the opportunity for me to care for them.

                    He should absolutely have generous time with them, but if he is not spending it with them, than how is 50/50 best for kids when they are actually 50 with someone else?

                    And if I do not argue it and detail out a plan now with first right of refusal etc, is it also fair to stipulate that he follow the recommendation of continued therapy. The wording was therapy and it is a an individual therapist who helps with addictions, sex therapy, etc. No timeline was outlined but the therapist was named.
                    If you wish I can send you a very detailed holiday draft plan (my email jeffysdivorce@gmail.com). Not spending time with the kids and not giving you the opportunity to care for them when he's not available and you are is a big mistake. I would argue this rigorously next time you are in court. Again, if it's a difficult person to deal with then you guys need a parental coordinator to sort things out, and of course a very detailed parenting time plan to give little to no room to "play" with.

                    I really appreciate that you're not putting "breaks" and you actually facilitate the transfer exchanges by allowing him to drop off/pick ups at your/his residence. In this way you're not stressing out unnecessarily your kids. It speaks out for itself, my hat down. I wish my ex would think the same.



                    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First thing- has your assessor drafted a report? Apparently it's common they don't draft the report before the disclosure meeting.
                      The OCL hold the disclosure meeting then give the parties a chance to settle before drafting the report - usually, the report will come 60-90 days later if there was a social worker. If there is a lawyer without a social worker they do not prepare a report.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                        The OCL hold the disclosure meeting then give the parties a chance to settle before drafting the report - usually, the report will come 60-90 days later if there was a social worker. If there is a lawyer without a social worker they do not prepare a report.
                        No, there has been no report drafted. It was a meeting to discuss recommendations only.

                        There is little to zero interest/cooperation from the other side to settle, they refused to even be in the same room for the OCL disclosure meeting, so it was a conference call with no opportunity to settle or discuss with the clinician.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The issue that most people don't realize is that, the OCL report is a recommendation only - that's it.


                          If the OCL report seems to contradict evidence you bring to trial, it can be tossed. There have been many OCL reports disputed and tossed because of subquality clinicians. The difference between these assessments and private ones is the quality - you get what you paid for.


                          If you believe the clinician did not do a good job, start analyzing the report for any discreptancies and build a case to dispute it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TheDailyDad View Post
                            The issue that most people don't realize is that, the OCL report is a recommendation only - that's it.


                            If the OCL report seems to contradict evidence you bring to trial, it can be tossed. There have been many OCL reports disputed and tossed because of subquality clinicians. The difference between these assessments and private ones is the quality - you get what you paid for.


                            If you believe the clinician did not do a good job, start analyzing the report for any discreptancies and build a case to dispute it.
                            I agree with you about the quality difference...but at what cost my friend? For a good private assessor you look somewhere around 30-35k, at least. How many people out there can afford it, specially if the other party doesn't want to share the cost. If you're lucky, you can get a good OCL clinician. In my case I was lucky, the clinician did an excellent fabulous job, not because it was in my favour, but because it was done right, child focused. Within a month my ex has disputed their report, other than few factual information nothing has been changed in their report. What's more important now is to implement the OCL recommendations, which most of the courts do heavily rely on.
                            From my experience with OCL is that you need to focus completely on your child, your parenting skills, be completely transparent with the OCL clinician, don't talk about your ex, instead talk about your strengths, your plans about your child, your child extra curricular activities and what else you can do to be more involved in your child's life, that you protect and promote a healthy relationship between your child and your ex, unless you're an alienator which is a completely different ball game.
                            This is what they want to hear, not about how a bad parent is your ex and how much controlling and abusive he/she was in your marriage, all this is just BS.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheDailyDad View Post
                              The issue that most people don't realize is that, the OCL report is a recommendation only - that's it.


                              If the OCL report seems to contradict evidence you bring to trial, it can be tossed. There have been many OCL reports disputed and tossed because of subquality clinicians. The difference between these assessments and private ones is the quality - you get what you paid for.


                              If you believe the clinician did not do a good job, start analyzing the report for any discreptancies and build a case to dispute it.
                              Private (Section 30) assessments are not substantially better. Especially if one or both the parties involved are high-conflict. Section 30 and OCL are overused in family law.

                              Ultimately the assessor is only as good as the evidence they gather and often parties will hold their cards close to their chest. It is correct that they advise the court and are NOT the final decision maker in matters. There are judges who will just go along with assessments. Depending on the jurisdiction you are in judges will pick apart the details of a report. In others, they will just go with whatever the report says.

                              People should not gamble with the OCL or a private assessment. The worst time in anyone's life to be "assessed" is in family separation... Especially when the court system is involved. This is when parents are behaving at their worst.

                              Family breakdown is a mental health crisis for both parents involved. The courts need to be more mindful of this. Some are... Some aren't. The whole process of "expert witnesses" needs a significant change in the CLRA and related Acts.

                              I would not recommend anyone engage the OCL or Section 30 unless one or both of the parents have clinically verifiable mental health issues that are serious. I mean SERIOUS. In all other matters, the evidence should stand and experts should be left out of the fiasco that is family law.

                              It is really a shame when the OCL or Section 30 have to get involved. They rarely add benefit and only inflate time which as a result inflates the overall cost of the matter.

                              First, you are fighting over the children. Then you are fighting over what an assessor said. Its a horrible spiral of conflict that only elongates the timeline to resolution.

                              People nitpick over what the assessor states. Assessors, in my review of now over 1000 reports filed with the court, rarely understand the key concept of relevance. They are not bound by their governing bodies clinical guidelines for the most part and although many carry clinical titles... They are assessing things that are not clinical in nature at all.

                              As OrleansLawyer stated... Reports take on average 60-90 days to produce. During that time the conflict can increase. On average of the files, I have reviewed (in my personal sample) 30% of the cases one of the parties files a "contempt" motion.

                              If the court system was fully digital and put into a big data system the patterns of behaviour would become easy to demonstrate. Imagine if you could query any document filed with the court house. Throw an learning engine at it all and seek out the common behaviour patterns of high-conflict parties. The system would change. But, without the data being easily exposed... Nothing will change.

                              Good Luck!
                              Tayken

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X