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Old 08-27-2012, 02:46 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
I think the real issue here, as I've stated many times in this forum, is that what are the consequences here?
Going beyond the concept of "legal consequences" of perjury which, as you identify later in your posting is a major issues before the "Family Court" being "acceptable" one would question the other consequences?

1. Loss of income to parties that are continually drawn into unnecessary and irrelevant matters before the courts? (Loss time at work, loss of employment because their personal matters have impacted their professional responsibilities.)

2. Loss of time for those who need the court system to resolve "real" disputes and problems? (People who truly need the services of the court may not get them because time, energies and efforts are being spent on irrelivant, unnecessary and frivolous claims from litigants who have no evidence other than their own personal "belief" that they have been wronged some how and expect the court to "believe" them when no other professional they contacted prior did.)

For example:

I only wish my ex made it as easy but he's smart enough to keep his temper behind closed doors. He perpetrated every kind of abuse except leaving bruises on me, which I wish I had now, because that is the only kind anyone (read: police) ever takes seriously. I'm worried for our child but since I have full custody (due to geography, not the way he treated us), I just have to keep the faith that the values I impart in her will be enough to carry her through when he explodes on her.

3. What about the "bad advice" that people are given by the "professionals"/"friends"/"family" that a litigant runs to court with? (i.e. Bad advice that grandparents have rights etc...) Specifically the negative advocates that contribute to "beliefs" (unsubstantiated/false allegations) made by the litigant in sworn statements to the "truth":

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
This is what's wrong with family court. Its not a gender issue..its an issue with litigants who abuse the court process like this. They blatantly lie under oath, they file useless motions, they block the other parent from seeing their children, they bring the children into divorce matters, they refuse financial disclosure, they don't pay costs even when they've been ordered to... they basically cause whatever havoc they can to the entire process and think they can get away with it...because oftentimes, they do!
Add to this laundry list, abduct children, file motions in the wrong jurisdiction, make false allegations of all sorts of things sighting nothing than "personal beliefs" that no other professional (Read:Police, CAS, et all...) have "believed".

The use of the term "abuse" may be very appropriate in matters such as these. The conduct of litigants who do this fits the clinical definitions of "psychological abuse" in my opinion. Just because they are using the legal system doesn't really make it any better... In fact, considering the points above... It makes what they have done "worse". They attempt to "justify" their irrational behaviours, allegations and "beliefs" and sell them as "facts" when they are not... They are false allegations.

False allegations of abuse are abuse!

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
There is a point at which the court gets sick and tired of litigants like this and starts penalizing them for their behavior but the tipping point is wayyyy to high, in my opinion.
I agree. Their needs to be a serious course correction on how and what can be presented as "facts" (evidence) before the court and there needs to be clear statements on how "beliefs" should be handled and what happens when something someone puts into an affidavit as a "belief" is based on factitious statements. Perjury is not found... Their conduct is white washed as a "mistake". It doesn't improve the system of family law and only exposes the significant need to integrate Family Law with the health care system.

People who lie need mental health help. They can be helped but, allowing them to leverage the court system is not *helping* them. It is only allowing their possible mental health issues to compound and go unchecked.

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
It will be very interesting to see what happens here.

Funny stbx's lawyer (high conflict attorney) answered around 50% of the questions for my stbx during one of the questioning sessions and later it was found out that since my ex had deceived his lawyer, the lawyer ended up basically lying for his client under oath. The judge has already chastised him in court for answering for his client in refusing to provide a paystub but it will be interesting to see what happens in our upcoming motions.
Because the judge often changes... The lawyer will try the same game and hope the new judge doesn't notice.

One family... One judge... In all "high conflict" disputes before the Family Court I say...

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
What is the real penality for lying under oath?
So far, nothing other than legal bills and possibly "winning" by grinding out the other parent with piles of lies.

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
Guess you'll be figuring out the answer to that question too Workingdad. Hang in there.
I can only hope.

I also forgot to mention the most important point of all this... How does this kind of conduct impact the most important people in all this... Children?

Last edited by Tayken; 08-27-2012 at 03:02 PM.
Old 08-27-2012, 04:26 PM
FaithandMorals FaithandMorals is offline
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Originally Posted by WorkingDAD View Post
Good thing Costco has good price on pack of red bull...
I hear that stuff doesn't always give you wings these days!!
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