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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 10-01-2009, 06:39 PM
Get Real Get Real is offline
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LV: What if the "adult child" of the marriage (age 20) is taking a college program that isn't likely going to contribute to a good career, and then once the 2 year diploma is acquired, needs to redirect to another program? Can we expect that the Dad (the payor) will need to continue to pay the child support along with the tuition fees/books etc.? And if that same child has terminated the relationship, is rude and vular, and the relationship is broken down to the point where she will not speak with him, she will only sends e-mails with scanned receipts for him to pay, which he does. She doesn't address him in those e-mails as Dad, she does not say please or thank-you, just blank e-mails with receipts.
My fiancee became very upset and frustrated and initiated a case conference, which he lost. He sought a termination of the support agreement upon the time of completion of his daughter's college diploma next year. The ex-wife and daughter showed up in court, with signed affidavits containing lies. The judge did not grant any such termination date, was not concerned about the child's very bad conduct towards her father, and wouldn't even allow my fiancee's lawyer to address the issue of the lies in the affidavits. It was a complete loss and my fiancee landed home in tears, completely humiliated. He wants to support his daughter, and would have given her the money for college anyway, he just wants her to be caring and demonstrate respect and appreciation. He feels as though she is choosing any old diploma program so that his ex may still receive the CS payments. For background, as a divorced father of 9 years, he has never missed a payment, is still in debt for her braces and her brother's education expenses. Meanwhile, this young lady has enjoyed at the ripe age of 20, three vacations in Mexico! She is working part-time as a waitress in a busy bar, and likely making pretty good money. Still, the judge did not request that she contribute to her own education. Is there a recourse to alter the outcome of this case conference that doesn't cost a fortune to litigate? It seems very unfair that this young lady gets a complete free education, can put her own earnings into her vacation fund, and her father doesn't even have the benefit of basic manners. What can we do about this?

Thank you in advance!
  #12  
Old 10-02-2009, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Real View Post
Is there a recourse to alter the outcome of this case conference that doesn't cost a fortune to litigate?
The Judge at a Case Conference cannot make a final decision about something like this. He can make recommendations and rulings on procedure, but that's it.

If you are not satisfied with the suggestions made by the Case Conference Judge, go forward in the process and request a Motion Hearing.

If costs are an issue, you can self represent. Just make sure you are prepared, and research case law.
  #13  
Old 11-04-2010, 11:11 AM
jq55 jq55 is offline
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no, there is no way out. My daughter is 23 and is in her 6th year of a 4 year program and I am still paying. she is taking corespondence courses, no classes, so she watchs TV all day and does some home work at night, she is taking 4 courses per semester and refuses to work or make any contribution to her education. her mother doesn't work either and is supposed to pay 20% of the education costs but of course she doesn't pay anything. i am paying the full amount for child support and 80% of any educational expenses.
I think my daughter committed fraud lasyt year by applying for and receiving OSAP loans in excess of $10.000.00, the only way she could have gotten a loan was to hide the fact that she gets $15,0000 tax free a year from me through support. i met with my lawyer and we are going to try and get the order changed to stop support but as he says "it's not a slam dunk" and so far has cost me $5,000 in legal fees. i have to go court again in the next few weeks.
  #14  
Old 11-04-2010, 11:47 AM
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just curious... is your exspouse wanting to pay for your child's post secondary education.. because i think (I could very well be wrong) that if both parents agree the post secondary education is the child's responsibility, then the child has to cover thier own costs and if you want you can offer them something but it is not mandatory... BUT if one of the parents feels it is waranted, then the other must pay as well...
So see where your ex sits in regards to this.
And I'm happy to hear that although your child ran into some difficulties with drugs and peer pressure, they have found their way out and are now on the road to a better future... makes me smile when hearing kids overcoming the odds once they've tripped into that lifestyle choice... kudos' for them... hope they feel proud of themself even though it may have taken a few years longer to complete highschool - at least they did it and didn't drop out
  #15  
Old 11-04-2010, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jq55 View Post
no, there is no way out. My daughter is 23 and is in her 6th year of a 4 year program and I am still paying. she is taking corespondence courses, no classes, so she watchs TV all day and does some home work at night, she is taking 4 courses per semester and refuses to work or make any contribution to her education. her mother doesn't work either and is supposed to pay 20% of the education costs but of course she doesn't pay anything. i am paying the full amount for child support and 80% of any educational expenses.
I think my daughter committed fraud lasyt year by applying for and receiving OSAP loans in excess of $10.000.00, the only way she could have gotten a loan was to hide the fact that she gets $15,0000 tax free a year from me through support. i met with my lawyer and we are going to try and get the order changed to stop support but as he says "it's not a slam dunk" and so far has cost me $5,000 in legal fees. i have to go court again in the next few weeks.
It is sad that your daugther doesn't take her responsibilities seriously and indeed may be downright and immoral and even criminal. One has to wonder how much her overall upbringing and exposure to a broken family contributed to that.

Unfortunately for you the rules of the system have operated to make you feel highly stiffed as a result of this. I would like to think that had she taken her studies more seriously and put herself in position for a really good career, that you would be feeling much better about having supported her through school.

It's not the law's fault that she screwed up. It's hers, perhaps the influence of her not so motivated mother, and maybe even blame can be laid at the effect of a bitter separation.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:23 PM
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her actions are a direct result of her mother wanting to continue to receive child support payments. The court states that the child must be a full-time student so my ex-wife determined that by the law full-time equals 4 courses. take the 4 year degree, divide by four and you have six years support payments and you don't have to work. of course she refuses to pay her share, which is 20%.
she played the same game with my son. he failed his course in december and was to be expelled from school. my ex drove to the college and convinced them to let my son "audit" classes so he would be attending school and she continued to recieve her payments even though there was hope of him graduating.
and it's still not done, she is 23 and they ar elooking for more money so I had to spend another 5,000.00 on a lawyer to defend myself.
as far as her upbringing, her mother did her best to keep the children away from me. she remarried years ago and of course wanted her new husband to play the role of dad, as long as he didn't have to pay any money he could live in the house i bought him. I treid to hang in there and be a part of their lives but as they got older it became harder and harder and soon I was nothing more than an ATM. their mother and the system taught them well.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:39 PM
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I know exactly what your husband is going through. I've had virtually the same story for the past 10 years when my eldest started university. for the past 10 years it's been a steady stream of lies and cheating to get money from me. some examples:
my eldest lived with her boyfreind while I was paying child support to her mother
my son failed his course at december and was expelled from school. when i tried to stop support the ex drove the college and convinced them to let my son "audit" classes. so he'd show up for class and do nothing, no tests, nothing buy sit there and I had to continue support for him until the end of his term in school. of course he didn't graduate so i paid $40,000 for nothing
my youngest daughter has been taking correspondence courses and living at home. I pay full support plus 80% of her school related expenses. she watches TV all day and refuses to work or contribute to her school expenses.
the courts let this behavior go on and on. I have absolutely no relationship with my kids. I tried to reconcile but last spring when i found out my youngest had receved a student loan for over $10,000 and didn't disclose this to me I sent a letter to her mother saying i was done. she had 5 years to complete a 4 year course so i wasn't paying anymore. FRO garnished my wages and now I have to go back to court and spend another $5,000 on a lawyer to try and get it stopped.
  #18  
Old 11-04-2010, 02:06 PM
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So your son was willing to piss away years of his youth in classes that he had no intention of completing on the basis of instruction from his mother so that she could continue to receive CS?

If so, then your son and your ex are both total deadbeats.

But it's not the law's fault that a couple of sheisters took advantage.
  #19  
Old 11-04-2010, 08:55 PM
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he was playing hockey for the college so that kept him busy ... no, it's the laws fault that they allowed this to happen, in fact condoned it by making me pay even though there was no intention to graduate. my lawyer said taking it to court was a waste of time and my money. He said the the court would rule that he was still attending school and making an effort to get an education.

the same with my daughter who was living with her boyfriend, when I asked my lawyer about that situation he said you'd have to higher a private detective to follow your daughter for at least a month to try and prove she didn't live with her mother.

it's the court that allows this type of behavior and promotes it by making it too difficult and expensive for fathers to protect themselves. my ex-wife simply had to pick up the phone and call the FRO and they took 1/2 of my net pay and handed it to her, no questiosn asked in a flash. in the first letter they sent me it said I had 15 days to repond, the same day they sent that letter to me they sent one to my employer telling them to garnish my wages. now I have to spend another $5,000 to fight them again in court and once again my lawyer says it's a crap shoot whether I'll win or not, just because my daughter committed fraud, stole $7,000 from me by taking my money when OSAP had paid her tuiton and my ex-wife pays nothing doesn't mean the court will rule in your favour. there's a very good cahnce they'll make you pay another year. and I'll be out another $5,000 for nothing.

the only ones who can change the system are the ones who profit from it, lawyers, judges, ex-wifes and adult children who have fiqured out it's an easy way to get money for nothing. so there's a snow balls chance in hell they are going to kill the golden goose.
  #20  
Old 11-04-2010, 09:22 PM
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also, it's the laws fault that I am viewed differently in their eyes than a father who is still living with the mother of his children. My brothers who are still with their wifes paid for one year of education for their kids. one of my neices is now a lawyer and I have three other neices in medical school. it appears if you have to pay for your own education you tend to value it a bit more. taking away my right to father my children the way I chose makes our children see us as something less than a regular parent.

My parents paid nothing for our educations. we worked and got loans, etc. I would never have aksed my parents, let alone legally force them to pay for my education.

the system is creating a generation of brats who beleive they are entitled to special treatment because the court gives it to them, no questions asked an dmakes it easy for them to control their parents.
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