Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-06-2020, 07:27 PM
Abba435 Abba435 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 395
Abba435 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default Covid - Access Issues - Shoe on the other foot

Have read the recent rulings and seen the threads. This is a new wrinkle and looking for insight.

Joint custody. Residency normally is 5/14 nights for me.
Since school out temporary 7/14 alternating weeks.

I am working at home.
My wife was working until 2 weeks ago in health care but took a leave since we have kids 7/14 plus concerns about virus. Non-essential job.
We live rural and are isolating voluntarily. No-one allowed in. We are not visiting anyone. That includes older step kids and all family and friends.
Very careful about shopping etc. and sanitation. No symptoms in us or anyone we have been in contact with and over 2 weeks has passed.
Co-parent (ex wife) has raised issues about safety but dropped all of that when I sent over the recent ruling. There were some unfounded and untrue accusations and insults thrown at us.

Ex is in a relationship with someone and they have separate homes. He has an older child that is not currently with him.
Kids told me recently that ex is visiting her boyfriend and vice versa. Also the kids have been to his home after Covid warnings issued and he has been to their mother's home. Covid is in the community (confirmed cases).

So here is the shoe on the other foot.
We are now concerned that our isolation has been compromised given the boyfriend and ex do not live as a family unit and are moving back and forth with and without the kids. And are concerned that when the kids go back to her home this will continue raising risk for the kids first and foremost adn then for us again after the weeks they spend there.

We are raised these concerns now very respectfully and got slapped.

Now we are thinking of proposing the following options.
Need some feedback please.
1. Kids stay with us until pandemic clears.
2. Kids stay with her until pandemic clears and they agree not to take kids to boyfriend's house and to limit (preferably end) his visits or he moves in to form a single family unit (will never happen)
3. They agree to end any visits between their homes and we keep the 7/14 schedule as is.

More fun and games.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-06-2020, 08:13 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,097
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Is he in a situation where he could get exposed? If no then leave it. The risk is low if they are following precautions. Divorce and custody are unique situations that require a different set of rules than just stay home or don’t go visiting. If your ex has no concerns with her new partner getting exposed then you should not have any yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:27 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 820
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

you haven't identified any behaviour in the boyfriend that would indicate that they are risking exposure more than normal- e.g. he works in health care, continues to other family members.

I don't see how it's an issue if both households (your ex and her boyfriend's) are isolated? I have a really good friend that I see sometimes and he is isolated totally. I don't see that as risky behaviour.

I'm with rockscan- leave it alone.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:29 AM
Abba435 Abba435 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 395
Abba435 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Agree in not looking for a problem where none may exist. Fact is we just do not know the true risk of the boyfriend moving back and forth and also of the kids visiting his home. We do know that there are strong recommendations from government agencies including the OPP to get as close to zero contact outside a family unit. So is he in the family unit? And is his home then by extension a family residence? The transmission of this virus is not fully understood. It is clearly in our communities. Complicated or simple?

So the question remains, how strict is strict enough when it comes to prophylactic measure to reduce risk of acquiring this virus and also of transmitting it if you are asymptomatic or worse symptomatic. My opinion is extreme measures are prudent. However, there are significant ancillary impacts and we will see these increase soon. The economic and social impacts will be far far more serious than the death rate of Covid. The issues of access are a small slice of that impact.

This demonstrates the fine lines, blurred lines and no lines nature of most family law and in fact much common law. It is highly subjective and layering in history, personalities, externalities, parental instinct and so many other variables it is easy to see how issues evolve and erupt. Sometimes people just want to pick a fight. I don't see myself that way but looking at yourself objectively is always of value. Easy to say. The term "reasonable" is bandied about but there is no clear definition that resolves all of the complications and permutations.

When it comes to this pandemic there is a wide range of "expert" opinion, variations between jursidicitons and personal opinions. This has been seen in recent years with the vaccinations debate and that ended up in court many times around the world.

I have not made the call (time is on my side) and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. That is the value of this forum for me anyway.

Last edited by Abba435; 04-07-2020 at 08:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-07-2020, 10:07 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 820
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

I think this is the time to ask questions- and as much as you can- keep it civil..

My daughter's dad and I have had the discussion about who visits our homes. Like I said in another thread- his 80something old mom who he lives with has COPD. My parents are seniors, and my mom has a compromised immune system. I asked him outright if his sister and her three kids would be visiting. He said no. He asked the same question of my sister and her family. I have assured him of the same. Is he lying? shrug. Does he go drink with his buddies every friday? He always has. I think we can only do what we can do. We have to trust the other parent to take reasonable precautions.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:01 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,097
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

I think there is a fine line between being concerned and being a gatekeeper. Added to that this is the child’s other parent. You are basically saying to the other parent “I don’t trust you with MY child”. Which only leads to escalating the situation further.

I also think in your case this sounds like you telling your ex not to see her bf.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:11 AM
Abba435 Abba435 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 395
Abba435 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
I think there is a fine line between being concerned and being a gatekeeper. Added to that this is the child’s other parent. You are basically saying to the other parent “I don’t trust you with MY child”. Which only leads to escalating the situation further.

I also think in your case this sounds like you telling your ex not to see her bf.
I am trying to say a very serious risk exists and where possible to follow strict protocols.
I trust scientists on this. CBC has just announced that these seemingly innocent situations are very risky especially any community contact.

A noted epidemiologist says “Study after study demonstrates that even if there is only a little bit of connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates/playgrounds, etc.), the epidemic trajectory isn't much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit.

You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit; if one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk.
Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming speed.If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son's girlfriend's mother shook hands with.”

I have no authority and intention of telling her what to do. I do have the intention of asking questions to be as informed as possible is assessing whether a shelter in place there or here is prudent and responsible for the family units and also the community. Or if we accept these risks and ratchet up our prone Tati earth measures even more.

Exhausting but necessary.

I totally understand your view and really appreciate your input.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-07-2020, 01:42 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,097
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

I understand questions need to be asked and measures taken. What I get worried about are others who come to this thread looking for support for a position that is unreasonable. Every case is different and requires both parties to work together. It is when parties start saying “Im not sending the kids back because I cant trust you” themed comments that there is a problem. Most people are taking this seriously. I am working from home but my husband still has to go to work. He had a positive case at a satellite office and was concerned for the full 14 days. He also insists when I go out every 7 days for food that I go at a certain time, wear gloves and a mask and wipe everything down when I return. I think he is being a little paranoid but I heed his comments and take to heart what he says. The problem is we live together and I respect his concern.

For those transporting kids back and forth it will create a touch of animosity if either of you say something in a way that may be taken as a tone of contempt or judgement.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:37 PM
Abba435 Abba435 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 395
Abba435 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
I understand questions need to be asked and measures taken. What I get worried about are others who come to this thread looking for support for a position that is unreasonable. Every case is different and requires both parties to work together. It is when parties start saying “Im not sending the kids back because I cant trust you” themed comments that there is a problem. Most people are taking this seriously. I am working from home but my husband still has to go to work. He had a positive case at a satellite office and was concerned for the full 14 days. He also insists when I go out every 7 days for food that I go at a certain time, wear gloves and a mask and wipe everything down when I return. I think he is being a little paranoid but I heed his comments and take to heart what he says. The problem is we live together and I respect his concern.

For those transporting kids back and forth it will create a touch of animosity if either of you say something in a way that may be taken as a tone of contempt or judgement.
Last thing I would wish for is anyone using my words to support a position that causes conflict. Your husband may seem over zealous but he is to be commended for erring on the side of caution IMHO.

I am hoping I can craft a message that is taken as respectful and based on concern for the children and for all of us. It will be an informed judgement call in the end. Stand by. On a related note some interesting US media lately about these exact issues.

Also confirmed by a friend at a major hospital (and through her police contacts) that domestic conflict is already rising and they are expecting a big spike as the economy worsens and people are at home isolating.

Sobering times. Stay safe.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:51 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,364
Janus will become famous soon enoughJanus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abba435 View Post
2. Kids stay with her until pandemic clears and they agree not to take kids to boyfriend's house and to limit (preferably end) his visits or he moves in to form a single family unit (will never happen)
You always have the right to give her 100% of the parenting time. Nobody is forcing you to be a parent.

If you are truly that concerned and this isn't just posturing, then let her have the kids 100% of the time. Option 2 works!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
access, corona, covid


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Issues with Access - Contempt? mafia007 Parenting Issues 37 09-16-2018 10:02 PM
Custody and Access Decision-Making and the Breastfeeding Child: Cavannah v. Johne WorkingDAD Divorce & Family Law 8 05-03-2011 10:55 AM
Access Issues and Child Support New2thisforum Financial Issues 17 12-28-2010 05:14 PM
Have I given up my rights as a parent? brokendad Common Law Issues 3 11-05-2009 06:57 PM
Case Conference Info tycooke Divorce & Family Law 9 07-12-2006 09:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:31 AM.