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Spousal Support - help me understand please!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Stressed by Ex View Post
    Logicalvelocity - I dont' want to sell the house. Are you stating what you would do if you were me or my Ex? I have 3 kids who don't want or need to be relocated again. I can afford to buy him out at the original purchase price and have been trying to do so for over 3 years!!!

    I have no idea what resjudicata means!!

    Wow it really is difficult to get a straight answer, but hey perhaps I don't ask straight questions!
    Missed that - your located in the house with your children. Google Resjudicata and I think you will get self explanation. Means to Retry the same issue. No material change prevailing. If one doesn't like the order - thats what Appeal is for.

    An order for purchase of their equity less the money they owe for previous costs awards etc could be brought. The other side wouldn't have much say and I suspect relief could be granted.

    Its confusing why you would bring a quasi criminal contempt action against the children's other parent -- They could be incarcerated if found in contempt. Is it in the kids best interest to experience that? Something to think about...

    Comment


    • #17
      I woudn't and haven't brought forward the contempt action. I am always thinking about the kids. That's all it should ever be about.

      As of September 2009, he has partially obeyed the order for costs. Between July 2008 and August 2009, every time my Ex served me (contrary to the rules by the way) to appear in court for a settlement conference, motion hearing, etc etc, I consistently asked for an adjournment on the grounds he was in contempt. No order has ever been made by the court that this subrule does not apply. Can I have all his pleadings struck from the record for anything he entered between July 2008 and August 2009. Can I ask for this at my pre trial exit?

      Or when I get to trial do I seek costs for dragging me to court repeatedly even though he was in contempt and should never have had audience?

      I'm glad you find this interesting. I'm so stressed over this madness! Our matter was so simple and he complicated everything for no valid reason - other than a promise to destroy me.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Stressed by Ex View Post
        I woudn't and haven't brought forward the contempt action. I am always thinking about the kids. That's all it should ever be about.

        As of September 2009, he has partially obeyed the order for costs. Between July 2008 and August 2009, every time my Ex served me (contrary to the rules by the way) to appear in court for a settlement conference, motion hearing, etc etc, I consistently asked for an adjournment on the grounds he was in contempt. No order has ever been made by the court that this subrule does not apply. Can I have all his pleadings struck from the record for anything he entered between July 2008 and August 2009. Can I ask for this at my pre trial exit?

        Or when I get to trial do I seek costs for dragging me to court repeatedly even though he was in contempt and should never have had audience?

        I'm glad you find this interesting. I'm so stressed over this madness! Our matter was so simple and he complicated everything for no valid reason - other than a promise to destroy me.
        In my view, the court didn't deal with the Contempt - because effectively they are monetary orders. It's inappropriate. If the court remained silent, Contempt was not shown on the face. You could be held accountable for this unnecessary action by the way of costs.

        However, if Rule 14 was applied, action could be brought to settle non-compliance of the monetary orders.... "Order made on motion" and have the other parent's equity in the jointly held home dispersed towards previous costs and outstanding arrears of interim support.

        The issue of the home equity is settled and just leaves the Support Issue prevailing for final determination.

        If their pleadings were struck for non-compliance of previous monetary orders - as soon as the equity in the home is dispersed-they could have their pleadings reinstated. Catch 22 and probably yield a trial eventually.

        Settlement Conference is just that - To promote settlement. Have the two of you considered mediation. Has everyone concerned considered the effect this litigation has had on the children the last few years. Surely, I suspect your children can see and feel the stress of both parents. They are caught in the crossfire...Settlement is not winning or losing but doing what is right for your children collectively as parents.

        Best of Luck.

        Comment


        • #19
          How come this procedural mumbo jumbo hasn't already been explained to you in return for the many tens of thousands of $ you have spent at the lawyers?

          Comment


          • #20
            Just as you have spent tens of thousands on lawyers, so has he and he is not able to get legal aid. He earns $48k a year, he has not received equalization on a fully paid house that he can't live in. He has been paying off the cost award, but obviously couldn't come up with $25k on the spot.

            If you had not fought against attending case conferences etc, this could have been settled years ago. Has either of you made an offer to settle?

            I can't do your equalization from here, but be aware that many many people find that they can't afford their mortgages and have to sell their homes. That is a reality of life. You seem to be avoiding a settlement, avoiding progressing through the conference system, using motions to create obstacles, so that you can avoid having to take out a mortgage?

            I'm sorry, perhaps I'm completely misunderstanding you, but this is what you are presenting.

            I realize you are not asking for personal advice, you are asking for an example of case law. But in fact, if you are not making attempts to settle, this will affect the outcome of your case. Case law applies depending on whether your position is ultimately reasonable. If you lose, he could end up appealing the earlier costs you were awarded. There is case law on this.

            How far apart are the two of you, actually? Take the reduced CS offset by his spousal claim, offer him an immediate settlement on the house, less his outstanding costs (which should ease your mortgage woes) and get out of the court system all together.

            Comment


            • #21
              Logicalvelocity - thanks for your input. HE WILL NOT MEDIATE. His position is well documented.

              Mess and Dadtotheend - you both have jumped to huge conclusions. And you need to read the thread before you throw out conclusions. This is exactly why this has taken over 3 years. Everyone is looking for blame and nobody wants to negotiate a fair deal and really understand the issues. I'm open to advice, but don't make assumptions. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SETTLE THIS FOR 3.5 years. I'm not trying to screw my Ex and never have been. I have been nothing but cooperative HE REFUSES TO MEDIATE. You want to give me some advice - here's the story...

              2007 - I spent 40K dealing with a conflict of interest and his first lawyer was removed from the record! That took a year and I was not paid costs awarded until 15 months after they were due to be paid. He made partial payment in September 2009. He paid no legal fees as he was getting free legal services through a mutual friend of the family! That's why I won this first motion hearing. It was nothing but my Ex's failed attempt to hurt me. And my kids lost respect for these mutual friends - we have no contact with them - they remain friends with my Ex. Huge issue between kids and their dad. Remember I've got teenagers. They know their dad has done wrong. In spite of this they still see him regularly and continue to do so until September 2008.

              2008 - I tried to represent myself and was bullied and threatened by his 2nd lawyer. Child support payments ceased because his lawyer told him he didn't need to pay because there was no Child support order. Told I had to waive the costs order too or there would be no settlement even though we had agreed on everything. Putting my kids first at all times!!! - I told him I didn't care about the CS if he would reduce the buyout price of the house by $25Kto cover some of my legal fees. That would leave me with $15K in legal debt. The house is not paid in full!!! There is a mortgage. I have been more than willing and ready to give him his 50% of the matrimonial home's value. Not the issue. He continues to exaggerate the homes value and we went to a settlement conference in October 2008. Judge ordered him to get the appraisal done and to pay for it but cautioned that the value of the home is obvious since it was purchased only 6 months before we separated. Judge cautioned that case law would be on my side. That's what I'm looking for - Case law on this issue!!

              2009 - Hired a lawyer. Emotionally couldn't do it on my own any longer and my ex refuses to settle. Appraisal has still not been done! It’s now July 2009 - bogus motion brought forward by Ex accusing me of alienating him from our kids. He has made no real attempt to see his kids. Using them as pawns in an effort to discredit me. Serves my lawyer in July 2009, the day after speaking to him on the phone after agreeing to exchange settlement offers and serves him knowing he was going on vacation. NewMarket experience - motion adjourned 3 times due to over scheduling of cases. I still have to pay my lawyer when we spent 3 whole days and then get adjourned. It’s now September and this bogus motion is finally heard. I was awarded reduced Child support based on his bogus Spousal support claim. I believe this was the judge trying to continue to encourage settlement. Ex is now claiming the house is worth more. May be true, but I doubt it. Again, I’m not trying to screw him out of anything. I simply want to keep our children in the same house, schools, friends etc and continue to try to offer the buy-out based on purchase price of home. In the meantime OCL and Social assist are now engaged. Supposed to have a Settlement conference in October, but that gets adjourned to give OCL time to continue meeting with the kids and help resolve alleged parental alienation. Judge insists we settle and to try mediation. Settlement conference scheduled for January 2010 to allow OCL time. We continue to try to settle. Ex is sure I’m going to be in BIG TROUBLE now that OCL is involved.


              2010 - Don't even know where to start. COMPLETE MESS! January Settlement Conference is adjourned because OCL need more time. Now were scheduled for March 4. My lawyer asks for an adjournment because he has to go to a funeral and sends an agent. We reschedule to April 13. Disclosure meeting with OCL has not been held yet so we think OK – April 13 makes more sense anyway. His lawyer goes to court on March 4. Keep in mind that all this time we're still trying to settle. But now I'm accumulating legal fees. $20K since hiring my second lawyer - which includes 5 court appearances in 2009, of which 3 were adjourned due to over scheduling and 1 due to OCL. His lawyer got to court March 4th, without me or my lawyer present, he gets an order for appraisal of our home demanding that I get it done. AGAIN Judges don’t read the file so now his claim is I’m in contempt and stalled the sale/buy-out of the home. He’s the one who was ordered to get the house appraised back in October 2008. My lawyer and his lawyer send numerous letters to the Judge. Agent we sent on behalf of my lawyer insists she ordered Child support arrears but forgot to write it on endorsement. His lawyer says that never happened and is now holding me in contempt because she ordered the appraisal and I haven't done that yet. Judge demands we appear before her and orders us into court to deal with this endorsement. It's now March break, my lawyer is on vacation. Letters continue to be exchanged with Judge and she finally backs off after the Agent we sent on March 4th swears an affidavit that she ordered arrears. We ask that this all be dealt with on April 13 - our scheduled Settlement/Trial management conference.

              OCL Disclosure meeting held 4 days ago. Conclusion - I have not alienated my kids from their Dad. They stopped seeing him about a year ago because they were tired of him talking about the litigation and about his rights. He kept telling the kids I wouldn't give him his money from the house. The kids know he's lying. So yeah my kids have been deeply affected by all this and he doesn't care. OCL and social assist told him he needed counselling to learn how to talk to 3 teenage kids and to learn how to manage his feelings as it relates to the divorce proceedings and to stop putting his kids in the middle. Tells him the whole Conflict of interest thing and his position today with respect to that has not helped him with respect to his children's views on that. Remember these were family friends and my kids are really hurt.

              Settlement conference held April 13 - Ex still refuses to settle. Insists this is going to trial. His position I owe him $1200 in Spousal, he owes me nothing. Asking for $50K more than the purchase price of the home and now has included my pension and some bogus claim of money he brought into the marriage of $70K. Pension was never on the table - we agreed to waive eachothers claim to pensions. The only equity we have is our home. My position, buy him out at original purchase price - less my legal fees (or at least a portion of them) and we walk away - "CLEAN BREAK". I don't want anything from him. NO CHILD SUPPORT. I just want peace and a chance to provide financially for my kids and have them remain in the house we now have been living in for 3 years and I've been paying all the bills. I also want my kids to have a relationship with their dad. It's my kids who - for the time being - refuse any contact because they want the litigation to stop.

              My EX WANTS TO GO TO TRIAL BECAUSE HE KNOWS I CAN'T AFFORD ONE and knows I will have to represent myself. He's determined to break me - emotionally and financially.

              He still has not paid any legal fees - worked a deal with his current lawyer to pay him once he gets the equity in the house. He could have had that 3 years ago and neither one of us would have had any legal debt! And he'd have relationship with his children.

              THIS FORUM REALLY ISN'T WORKING FOR ME!

              Comment


              • #22
                Oh don't be so selfish...its working for me.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Well if you can't afford a trial, then you better settle, cause it seems he's bent on taking you there and you can't afford it.

                  When I was at the FLIC information session at the commencement of our proceedings, two gems, said by a lawyer of all people, and which I have repeated in other posts here, resonated with me:

                  1)You're in a life changing period. Don't let it become a life defining period.

                  2)You're in the court system. Your first objective should be to get out of the court system.

                  Take a deep breath friend, and think about those two statements.

                  You may have to do some serious compromising if you can't afford trial and he's bent on taking you there.

                  On the other hand, if he takes you there and he's ruled against, then he has the pleasure of your costs.

                  Keep moving towards trial and see who blinks first. Be and act decisively as though you are heading there. You will settle.

                  Three years is a long time in the courts. You and your family need to get out.

                  And stop making snide remarks about this forum.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Stressed by Ex View Post
                    ....I also want my kids to have a relationship with their dad. It's my kids who - for the time being - refuse any contact because they want the litigation to stop....


                    He still has not paid any legal fees - worked a deal with his current lawyer to pay him once he gets the equity in the house. He could have had that 3 years ago and neither one of us would have had any legal debt! And he'd have relationship with his children.

                    THIS FORUM REALLY ISN'T WORKING FOR ME!
                    Why are your kids even involved? They shouldn't be privy to all the in and out details of your court battles, especially if it is keeping them from having a relationship with their father. Who is sharing all of this with them and why?? Those kids should be sheltered from the nastiness between the two of you as much as possible and shouldn't have to hear about or be concerned about your financial issues and court battles.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      She is sitting in the house, fully paid for, probably the only asset that he has, but she won't buy him out, she keeps comng up with motions to prevent the case conferences.

                      She owes him 3 1/2 years of rent on the house since she won't buy him out. Let's say half of $1600, or whatever the going rate is for a decent house in Newmarket... That pretty much wipes out his child support right there.

                      She refuses to buy him out because she can't afford a mortgage. That's the reason she won't settle, and it's the reason he won't let go of the lawsuit.

                      She could have settled amicably 3 1/2 years ago, but she preferred a costly lawsuit over a conflict of interest, because his lawyer was a family friend. Although I smell BS that it alone cost $40,000 in legal fees, similar suits on Canlii award costs in the range of $1500.

                      He wanted a new assessment because he thought the value had gone up, but she fought him over it. Now she says she can't afford a mortgage at market value, but she could afford one on the original price they paid. Because, duh, the value of the house has gone up.

                      It's pretty obvious why she won't settle.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Silly me and Dad to the end - my comments about this forum were not to be critical. I'm simply sharing how I feel about some of the responses I'm getting. Again I don't understand why people like Mess keep assuming the worst.

                        Blinkandimgone - I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU!! I have done everything in my power to protect my kids and shelter them from all of it. It is in fact my ex who has dragged them into the middle and shared all the issues with him. Please read below for details of Children's lawyer and Social workers involved for the last 18 months.

                        MESS - WHERE DO I START WITH YOU
                        Please read the thread carefully. And why are you so angry. Somebody done you wrong??? Get over it - you can't go through life being so judgemental and jumping to the wrong conlusions over and over again.

                        ONCE AGAIN THE FACTS: House is not fully paid for. I can afford a mortgage. I have been trying to settle since the day we separated over 3 years ago. My offer has always been the following - buy out the house at the purchase price since we only lived in it together for 6 months. No child support - and that's $925/month he would have to pay. Asked him to help with university tuition and that's it. I have 3 kids.

                        His offer since separation - house went up in value $140,000 in 6 months. His estimate not a professional appraiser. I got the house appraised 2 years ago and the appraiser said maybe $15k more, but that would go to commision so don't sell. He claims I owe him $1500/month in spousal support, but divorcemate doesn't support that claim.

                        He imposed the costly lawsuit not me!!!

                        HE WON"T SETTLE. HE HAS DRAGGED ME INTO COURT ON BOGUS MOTIONS. HE HAS DRAGGED OUR 3 KIDS INTO THE MIDDLE BECAUSE HE CONTINUES TO TRY TO CONVINCE THEM THAT I'M THE BAD GUY.

                        After 15 months of Children's lawyer and Social work assistance, they find that he has in fact alienated his own kids by dragging them into the middle.

                        FINALLY - I don't live in NewMarket. It is in NewMarket that my case is at. And yes you are correct about the usual range of $1500 in costs. The conflict of issue was so plain and my ex was warned repeated to find another lawyer and he refused. I did indeed spent $40K in 2007 at which time all I dealt with was the conflict of issue. Would you like to see my receipts. Would you like to see the Judge's ruling ang the cost award I got. I'd be happy to share it.

                        BY THE WAY, I WAS IN COURT TODAY FOR PRE TRIAL MANAGEMENT -
                        My ex and his lawyer got a real beating today. All they had was bogus and I had hard facts, evidence of my position and continued attempts to settle. I won't bother sharing anymore because MESS won't believe me anyway!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          You're lame, send cash.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Stressed by Ex View Post
                            Silly me and Dad to the end - my comments about this forum were not to be critical. I'm simply sharing how I feel about some of the responses I'm getting
                            Well "I feel" you're being a dick by trashing this place, and then furthermore asking us to search case law for you.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              So spill the beans - how did you make out?

                              Originally posted by Stressed by Ex View Post
                              Silly me and Dad to the end - my comments about this forum were not to be critical. I'm simply sharing how I feel about some of the responses I'm getting. Again I don't understand why people like Mess keep assuming the worst.

                              Blinkandimgone - I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU!! I have done everything in my power to protect my kids and shelter them from all of it. It is in fact my ex who has dragged them into the middle and shared all the issues with him. Please read below for details of Children's lawyer and Social workers involved for the last 18 months.

                              MESS - WHERE DO I START WITH YOU
                              Please read the thread carefully. And why are you so angry. Somebody done you wrong??? Get over it - you can't go through life being so judgemental and jumping to the wrong conlusions over and over again.

                              ONCE AGAIN THE FACTS: House is not fully paid for. I can afford a mortgage. I have been trying to settle since the day we separated over 3 years ago. My offer has always been the following - buy out the house at the purchase price since we only lived in it together for 6 months. No child support - and that's $925/month he would have to pay. Asked him to help with university tuition and that's it. I have 3 kids.

                              His offer since separation - house went up in value $140,000 in 6 months. His estimate not a professional appraiser. I got the house appraised 2 years ago and the appraiser said maybe $15k more, but that would go to commision so don't sell. He claims I owe him $1500/month in spousal support, but divorcemate doesn't support that claim.

                              He imposed the costly lawsuit not me!!!

                              HE WON"T SETTLE. HE HAS DRAGGED ME INTO COURT ON BOGUS MOTIONS. HE HAS DRAGGED OUR 3 KIDS INTO THE MIDDLE BECAUSE HE CONTINUES TO TRY TO CONVINCE THEM THAT I'M THE BAD GUY.

                              After 15 months of Children's lawyer and Social work assistance, they find that he has in fact alienated his own kids by dragging them into the middle.

                              FINALLY - I don't live in NewMarket. It is in NewMarket that my case is at. And yes you are correct about the usual range of $1500 in costs. The conflict of issue was so plain and my ex was warned repeated to find another lawyer and he refused. I did indeed spent $40K in 2007 at which time all I dealt with was the conflict of issue. Would you like to see my receipts. Would you like to see the Judge's ruling ang the cost award I got. I'd be happy to share it.

                              BY THE WAY, I WAS IN COURT TODAY FOR PRE TRIAL MANAGEMENT -
                              My ex and his lawyer got a real beating today. All they had was bogus and I had hard facts, evidence of my position and continued attempts to settle. I won't bother sharing anymore because MESS won't believe me anyway!
                              So spill the beans - how did you make out?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                What do you mean by send cash. I'm new to the forum. I thought it was free. Are you a lawyer?

                                Comment

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