40% Calculation

[Perserverance]

I have been lurking on this site for a few months now. You have all been most informative!

I am having trouble calculating whether the following access is considered 40% or not. My husband has his daughter in his care as follows:

Pick up Saturday @ 6pm - drop off to daycare Monday @ 8am
(every two weeks)

Tuesday pick up @ 11am - Wednesday drop off at daycare @ 10:30am

Thursday pick up@ 5pm - Drop off at daycare Friday @ 8am

I'm unclear as to how percentages are actually calculated - hours/days ???

If this would be considered 40% or more, how is the CS then calculated?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[billm]

I have it at 43%

He has them Sat, Sun, Wed (x2), Thurs (x2) over two weeks, which is 6 out of 14 days = 43%.

Given the child sleeps over, it is easiest (and most fair) to simply count the days where the child sleeps.

[Perserverance]

Thank you!

How would one calculate CS based on a 40/60 split...if the father makes 82,763 and the mother makes 82,800?

[Mess]

Anything between 60/40 is considered 50/50. You would each pay each other the table amount, in theory. In practice, one amount is subtracted from the other and the difference is paid. In your case your incomes are almost identical so it would be reasonable that no support is paid and all expenses are split 50/50. We should all be so lucky.

[Perserverance]

Thank you Mess....

My husband's dauther's mom is claiming that she can go back and readjust the last year's CS payments to reflect the Notice of Assessment. My understand has always been to adjust every July 1 going forward.

She is claiming that monies are owed, however my husband has his daughter 43% of the time, not to mention 6 weeks while the mom had surgery. He wasn't going to say anything as he feels that it may all balance out going forward with his daughter starting school. HOWEVER, she is wanting to go back to the beginning of 2009 to readjust CS now that the Notice of Assessment is has been provided.

FYI, He works unusual and long business hours but tries to have any spare time spent with his daughter.

This is the first readjustment they've had to endure, so its important to get it right.

Anymore information is greatly appreciated! Thank you.

[Mess]

If one made a certain amount in 2009, CS would be based on that amount for 2009, if it was taken to court and retro was requested. In practice we usually go with the notice of assessment and go forward because it's simpler. Many people have their separation agreements worded that way. But what she is saying is fair game.

If there is an agreement or court order specifying CS then your husband has to pay, 43% or no. It is incumbant on him to seek a change to the order. If I were him I would. With a shared parenting situation both parents are equally responsible for child support, the mother earns as much as the father and should be "paying support" (having both incomes acknowledged and set-off). If your husband chooses to address this, he should approach it in that way, that she is not paying the support she is required to by law. He is not seeking a reduction, he is seeking for the mother to be responsible for her share of support.

He should also focus on firming up a case for a shared parenting designation. From your description the mother acts like she has custody. He should make sure he has equal involvment in school, doctor, dentist, etc and be acknowledged in every way as equal. Show equal in practice and have it recognized in law. If the mother doesn't get what she wants, she will seek to limit his access those few hours to lower his percentage.

[LostFather]

I have it at 43%

He has them Sat, Sun, Wed (x2), Thurs (x2) over two weeks, which is 6 out of 14 days = 43%.

Given the child sleeps over, it is easiest (and most fair) to simply count the days where the child sleeps.

I am told that I am under, at about 35%, I have my boys every Wed overnight and every second weekend Fri after school to Monday morning.

For this I pay full guideline support.

[Perserverance]

You hit the nail on the head Mess! The mother has been "advising" him, but in a way that purposely does not involve him. I know that the first year and a bit can be confusing until you finally find your footing and each other figure out what their rights actually are.

He claims to be ok with continueing to pay child support going forward but not agreeing to paying retro back to Jan 2009 based on his 2009 NOA, despite his 43% access regime. I have cautioned him on the possibility of setting a precedence early on. I have been where he is 3 years ago and we are still finding our footing through this web of family law. The one thing we don't seem to argue about is our Notice of Assessment and the amount of CS to be paid. The numbers are the numbers....and you the calculations are usually straight forward. In my case, its a less than 40% arrangement and my ex pays the full table amount. Thats why I am unfamiliar with an over 40% calculation. I knew he was paying more than he needs to.

Should he be concerned about setting a precedence? He's afraid of causing his chile undue hardship even though his ex makes close if not slightly more than he does.

What steps should he take to ensure that this is all done right. He would also like to avoid going to court if at all possible. Again, he doesn't want to rock the boat in a way that may upset his ex and make things difficult.

Thanks again for all your help!

[billm]

Thank you!

How would one calculate CS based on a 40/60 split...if the father makes 82,763 and the mother makes 82,800?

The set off method is usually used in a 50/50 split (which this is, there is no distinction between 60/40 and 50/50). This means the greater income earner pays the lesser income earner the difference in their table amounts (0 difference in this case). And they split all non house hold related costs such as camps, clothing, sports, school expense, etc equally.

Note that the agreement should state that CS is updated annually in July based on tax returns for the previous year, so CS may happen if one starts to earn more than the other.

[Mess]

Perseverence, I can't tell your husband how to live his life, but the idea that someone earning over 80k can't support one child on half time without undue hardship is absolutely ridiculous. I live a few blocks from assisted housing where families live in poverty, a lot of them both parents work earning just over minimum wage and between the two of them don't earn what this woman is earning. I see poverty and undue hardship every time I walk to the grocery store.

What your husband is doing, I'm sorry but I have to say it, is looking for excuses to not stir the pot. He is rationalizing, it is just inertia and anxiety. If he chooses to be passive about it that is his choice, but the child is not being properly supported here. He does not have comparable income left to provide equal support when the child is with him. If there is any "undue" hardship it is when the child is in your home. This is because the mother is not paying the child support she is required to by law. Why not? Because she is a dead beat.

I don't want to talk you into a battle if you and your husband are not up for it, but don't lie to yourselves about it. I'm sure overall the child is fine in either home, but children also have a right to have equal support available from both parents. That's not what's happening here.

[Mess]

I am told that I am under, at about 35%, I have my boys every Wed overnight and every second weekend Fri after school to Monday morning.

For this I pay full guideline support.

That's 5 nights per fortnight, 35% is what it comes to. Personally I think you get the short end, but that's what the law says.

[LostFather]

That's 5 nights per fortnight, 35% is what it comes to. Personally I think you get the short end, but that's what the law says.

Yep, one night a week, i have all the same expenses, she has the children one night a week more than I do, and for that she gets or the children supposedly get almost 800/month. Then I am supposed to put a roof over their heads, feed and cloth them too, what is left, nothing! On top of that she make 15k more a year than I do.

I thought the law was set up that things were to be equal in both homes, this is certainly not the case. Some feminist would say that we fathers are just trying for equal access so that we don't have to pay a "few bucks", I would argue that $800 is not a few bucks, but if they say we access our children to save the few dollars then they deny access to keep that 'few bucks'.

In reality moms come to rely on that money coming in every month, and I think would have a hard time letting go $800. month TAX FREE! that almost 10K a year and no tax, some people as you suggest do not bring that home working 40 hrs a week. CS is a big racket, in my opinion, why is it that one parent suffers the parent is on easy street! Why can there not be a happy middle where both parents are able to provide equally?

People wonder why fathers are driven to madness, being denied court ordered access, paying huge amounts of CS even when you have your children, being driven in bankruptcy fighting an unjust family law system.

This all needs to change, bill c 422 is something that all of us need to get on board with.

[Perserverance]

Thank you Mess! You are absolutely correct. The ball is in his court and its up to him to hit that ball and play, or to walk away from the game.

What steps can you suggest he make so that things are done properly this time round and to set him up for the future?

The separation agreement does say that any change to the agreement be made in writting and agreed to by both parties with a witness. He does have emails by which she has asked for him to have his daughter the extra time and an agreement email stating that she agrees with him having her for this extra time. I don't think she realizes that extra time does put him at 43%. He has had this access regime of 43% in place since October 2009. Could she turn around and say - well, I am now taking that time back and going back to the access regime that was originally agreed to in the sep agrmt?? Or, is the email agreement and the fact that she extended this extra time and its been formally in place since October 2009 enough to warrant a change?

You have no idea how helpful you've been. Thanks again!

[Mess]

People can argue anything they wish. Of course she can say that. Will it stand up against your husband's arguments? It depends on what he does.

First he has to make up his mind to shit or get off the pot. If he seeks a change then he has to commit himself because as soon as he makes a first move she will retaliate herself.

As I wrote earlier, he has to establish himself as an equal parent in every situation possible. He should attend at the doctor's. If there is no appointment coming up he should make an appointment of his own and meet with the doctor and discuss his child's health. He needs to be there, hearing first hand. If nothing else he can say that the mother is vague and he wants to hear from the doctor themself. As well he should absolutely attend the school, daycare, any lessons or sports or other activities. I'm saying this because I have been in this situation and I can guarentee the mother will pull all of this out to say, "He may have that extra percent but he is not a full time parent, he is not involved in all of this, I am doing everything." He has to make his presence known or it is an uphill battle. The emails are very important. The length of time establishes a status quo. The mother is making a spurious claim for extra support money from 2009, this shows her as concerned more about money than time with the child.

The purpose of shared parenting is that the child has equal access and equal involvement from both parents. It's not/shouldn't be about money, and you mustn't come across that way. That said, finance is important, as is right and wrong and obeying the law. The mother is abusing the sitiation for financial gain. She should be paying her share of support. She is not, she taking extra money from the father and using that instead of her own. The child has less resource available while with the father because of this. This is the way you have to go.

Build your case from the start emphasising the equal parenting, then portray the mother as a deadbeat who is abusing the system.

[Perserverance]

Thanks again Mess. You have been most helpful!!