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  • Relocation within 100kms

    Not sure if this situation has been handled here already, but...

    My partner and I are contemplating a quality of life move from Toronto to Guelph, a distance of 100kms.

    I am divorce and my kids are grown so no issues for me on doing this. My partner is separated but not divorced, more than two years. The ex has the boys (9 and 11) every other weekend a day during the week but the majority of the time they are w/us. But the point of the move is for the benefit of the boys.

    The parents not being divorced is one factor though there is an SA just no relocation clause. (Unenforceable from what I have read here in any case).
    Reasonable to suggest keeping every other weekend (we'd drive them in and pick them up) and enhanced time over holidays?

    Not sure what he can do to stop us but he may of course be able; am looking for an intelligent arrangement. Thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
    Not sure if this situation has been handled here already, but...

    My partner and I are contemplating a quality of life move from Toronto to Guelph, a distance of 100kms.

    I am divorce and my kids are grown so no issues for me on doing this. My partner is separated but not divorced, more than two years. The ex has the boys (9 and 11) every other weekend a day during the week but the majority of the time they are w/us. But the point of the move is for the benefit of the boys.

    The parents not being divorced is one factor though there is an SA just no relocation clause. (Unenforceable from what I have read here in any case).
    Reasonable to suggest keeping every other weekend (we'd drive them in and pick them up) and enhanced time over holidays?

    Not sure what he can do to stop us but he may of course be able; am looking for an intelligent arrangement. Thanks
    You cannot move the children without the other parents permission.

    If they say no, you either don't move or challenge it in court and PROVE that it's in the child's best interest.

    Other parent could also ask for CS to be reduced to cover the additional costs for their access.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
      Not sure if this situation has been handled here already, but...
      Yes, residential relocation has been covered quite extensively on this forum. You can click on my alias and view all my "main thread" postings.

      Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
      My partner and I are contemplating a quality of life move from Toronto to Guelph, a distance of 100kms.
      I don't recommend you move 100KM away from the habitual residential location of the children in question. Even if you facilitate the access.

      You will never be able to be properly involved in the children's lives and the parent in question will never achieve 50-50 access and joint custody. You give up a lot... Is the money worth more than the time with the children, proximity to their activities?

      Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
      The ex has the boys (9 and 11) every other weekend a day during the week but the majority of the time they are w/us.
      Either you have them every-other-weekend with a Wednesday overnight or you have majority access. You can't have both.

      If the boys are residing with their parent more than what is called out in the agremeent or order that parent should seek to update the order or agreement.

      Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
      But the point of the move is for the benefit of the boys.
      I fail to see how an every-other-weekend parent moving 100KM away benefits the children. Is the parent in question going to increase CS based on the cost of living changes?

      Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
      The parents not being divorced is one factor though there is an SA just no relocation clause. (Unenforceable from what I have read here in any case).
      You are incorrect on both points. Divorce has no relevance and more than likely the no relocation clause is about the location of the children.

      You and the parent to these minor children are free to make a bad decision and move 100KM away from the children to save some money which will just be spent on gas, a 4x4 vehicle so you can get through the snow storms that muck up the 401 6 months a year, wear and tear on this vehicle, and lost time with the children.

      Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
      Reasonable to suggest keeping every other weekend (we'd drive them in and pick them up) and enhanced time over holidays?
      You will have to give up the Wednesday. Which I do not recommend at all. The parent in question should be seeking to maximize time to achieve 50-50 access. Not moving further away and reducing access time.

      Originally posted by Kennzer View Post
      Not sure what he can do to stop us but he may of course be able; am looking for an intelligent arrangement. Thanks
      You are able to move wherever you want to. The other parent can't stop you from moving. But, the other parent can seek an order to reduce access based on the distance you have moved, ask the court to order that you accommodate any additional costs to facilitate access and to reduce your access.

      I would recommend the other parent to not move, to become properly involved in their children's lives, attend their school events, and seek to increase access to 50-50 and be a equal parent. To do this until the children are grown and then seek out wherever they want to live at that point in time.

      Good Luck!
      Tayken

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by FB_ View Post
        You cannot move the children without the other parents permission.
        I assumed they are the every-other-weekend parents.

        In the case OP you are not. You should read my threads on "mobility" and "habitual residential jurisdiction" and prepare to pay a 50,000 retainer to ***TRY*** and get a court order.

        CanLII - 2008 CanLII 37217 (ON SC)

        There is no other area of family law litigation in which the idea of “winner” and “loser” is less applicable than that of mobility cases. It is also true, that even with the very best parents, it is the area where “win-win” solutions can rarely, if ever, be fashioned. Parents involved in a mobility dispute often have to resort to the courts, because even with the best of intentions, and with both parties doing their best to put their child’s interest before their own, they cannot find a solution to the desire of one parent to move with the child, and the other parent vehemently resisting that move.
        The OP's view that moving to Guelph would be best for the children is to quote Justice Mossip is a "hope" at best. There are other options available to this family which would not involve such a drastic change in the children's lives like reducing expenses etc...

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sioux View Post
          If am not mistakned, it's NOT the every other weekend parent that is moving to Guelph. OP please clarify which is you in this equation
          Not sure. WIth the my kids, my partner, and the ex as all players it is hard to tell really.

          Comment


          • #6
            It sounds as though your spouses ex is the parent whom the children primarily reside and your spouse has the kids every-other-weekend and 1 night during the week.

            Because you are not the parent whom the children primarily reside, thus your address isn't relevant when it comes to matters like their school district and friends etc., you can make the bad decision to move all you want.

            By moving further away, your spouse will undermining his own relationship with his kids by not being local to them and allowing him to parent in the event of an emergency. He is pretty much saying a more comfortable lifestyle is more important than his kids.

            Also, because he moved, he will be the one responsible for any extra travel required for him to exercise his parenting time. The ex shouldn't be put out, financially or otherwise, because your spouses unilateral decision to make his life more comfortable.

            But yeah, you can move. The ex likely wouldn't have a case to prevent him. It will just undermine his ability to parent, that's all.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sioux View Post
              If am not mistakned, it's NOT the every other weekend parent that is moving to Guelph. OP please clarify which is you in this equation
              I understood it to be the OP's partners' children and that the partner has majority access and the children's other parent has every other weekend plus a mid week visit.

              A judge *may* grant a move if your offers of extra holiday time and travel costs are reasonable and your reasons are in fact for the children.

              But if I was the other parent, I wouldn't agree.
              Like a previous poster indicated, that takes away their opportunity to attend any of the children's school activities or extracurriculars plus their mid week visit will be gone.

              Comment


              • #9
                Ok, just reread it:

                The ex has the boys (9 and 11) every other weekend a day during the week but the majority of the time they are w/us.
                In order to move, you will need either the consent of the ex or a court order. In order to obtain a court order, you will need to provide tangible evidence that the move will more than benefit the kids than the loss of the parents ability to parent. This means better schools, substantially better incomes, closer to extended family. Having a bigger house is not a tangible benefit.

                edit - should you attempt to move without either consent or a court order, the ex can file a motion in court requesting the immediate return of the kids to their familiar location.

                My comment on the parent who moves being responsible for covering any extra costs for the other parent to exercise their parenting time remains on point. Plus, the parent who moves will also have to compensate for any lost parenting time. If the ex can't exercise his mid-week parenting time, he better get a good chunk of summer as compensation.
                Last edited by HammerDad; 06-09-2014, 02:13 PM.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by sioux View Post
                  Bingo......yes you and I are reading it the same way See my immediate response above to HammerDad
                  Yeah, I misread the portion where they set it out. I read as if OP was the EOW parent.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Interesting tayken that your advice to maximize time with children here is contrary to other advice you have given even as of today...you state here the every other weekend and we'd night parent should maximize their time...but in my thread we should just let kids enjoy more one on one time with mom even though they are supposed to be with their father who loves and adores them - even has stuff planned with them.

                    Anyhow, I don't want to trump this thread...

                    To the OP - bad idea in my view. Extra holiday time is not regular and meaningful access to the other parent.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Serene View Post
                      Interesting tayken that your advice to maximize time with children here is contrary to other advice you have given even as of today...you state here the every other weekend and we'd night parent should maximize their time...but in my thread we should just let kids enjoy more one on one time with mom even though they are supposed to be with their father who loves and adores them - even has stuff planned with them.

                      Anyhow, I don't want to trump this thread...

                      To the OP - bad idea in my view. Extra holiday time is not regular and meaningful access to the other parent.
                      I think Tayken's point in your thread is that dad isn't parenting the kids while they are in school. And unless dad is going to take the kid himself, then the ex is the next best thing.

                      As for dropping off late, as mentioned in your thread, you have some remedies to that. Some of those remedies will create more conflict than others and you will have to accept that.

                      All that said, please try and keep this on track.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        The OP states the primary reason for the move is to benefit the children. Can you help us understand what this illustration looks like? What benefits? And how do the children benefit?

                        Have you considered the opportunity cost with reduced access to the other parent?

                        I encourage you to consider: Are the benefits to the children to move evident to the EOW and Wed parent? Have you even talked to that parent about your move?

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          You can move anywhere you like. The children cannot move without the express agreement of the other parent, or a court order from a judge.

                          If you can convince the EoW dad that his weekend access won't be affected (ie, you will do all the added driving) and that he'll have extra holidays to make up for the loss of mid-week access, he may agree. If he's the type to attend other activities of the children even when it's not his access time, such as hockey games, musical concerts, etc, he may not agree because those will no longer be accessible for him. However, he may also realize that as the children grow, it will be harder for him to have access from so far away, as they would prefer to be with their friends.

                          Which brings up the main difficulty any parent has with relocating. You have to not only prove that the new environment they would be moving to would be worth the loss of some contact with their father, but also worth the upheaval to their lives of their removal from their familiar school, activities and all their friends. If you can't prove it to the other parent during a discussion, you would have to prove it to a judge if you chose to pursue it in court.

                          The main consideration would be the best interests of the children. Not the best interests of the mom and step-dad.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Keep in mind that children tend to gravitate to the same sex parent as they mature/grow older. If these children are boys and fall within the typical norm of gravitating towards their father - then you are doing an injustice to them.

                            I would also challenge why YOUR beliefs about "best interests of the kids" would be appropriate. Meaning, is this a clinical view? I'm not being facetious, but many people go with their gut feeling or emotionally reason their stance/viewpoint. Which of course is a flawed starting point.

                            Comment

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