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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:16 PM
Whataboutbob Whataboutbob is offline
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Default Spousal Support while seperate but under same roof until we hate each other :)

I'm trying to think through options around spousal support while separate but living under same roof for an extended period of time...

1. Option just go with CS + SS as per SSAG and split non personal expenses based on percentage of combined income

2. Pay just spousal support and split expenses based on percentage of combined income.

But I'm penalized because I can't deduct SS till we physically separate, so wondering if maybe applying the SSAG (no CS) calcuation but against net instead of gross might be a reasonable approach.

Also, any thoughts if I'm signficantly putting myself in excessive financial risks going this approach? Rule of 65 already applies, and it would be quite reasonable for her to claim needs based once on her own.

I'm not a saint, but I do wish to be reasonable. Shes still my kid's mom and we don't hate each other... yet.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:17 AM
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Presumably you would pay CS and SS and then split expenses. You had better be ridiculously explicit in your split though, because it will only take one disagreement to send your amicable agreement into a tailspin.


Who decides on kids activities?
Who decides on what furniture to buy for the house?
Who mows the lawn?
Who buys the food?
Who cooks?
Who pays when you eat at a restaurant with the kid?
Who cleans the house?
Who buys makeup?
Who pays for kid clothing?
Who pays for gas? Who gets the car? Who pays for car repairs?


You have a laser focus on the wrong thing. Paying CS and SS is great and all, but it is the details that will muck you up.
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Old 04-11-2019, 10:28 PM
Whataboutbob Whataboutbob is offline
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I think you are right, the CS + SSAG and split the expenses might be the more straightforward way to go and does allow for cleaner exit strategy when requierd. I hear your concern regarding the expenses and potential arguments.

plan:
- separate accounts for payroll, building independant savings, individual expenses
- separate cars
- separate living areas with in the house and commons like Kitchen and Laundry
- split cost of shared expenses (Mortgage, Utilities, Child Expenses, other mutually beneficial bills).
- use a joint account for bills that require such a thing, build a small buffer house expenses
- split assets like RRSPs, Pension, Investments
- payback or split debt
- delay selling house till one of us wishes to move, with a clause to trigger sale listing within 60 days if one party wants out.
- have custody, CS and SS agreements in place with agreement it covers both under same roof and if one moves out

We've been married a long time and indefinite SS is pretty much garranteed, I make significantly more than she does, shes on LT disability, but looking to return to work this year. So it seems to me I'll be paying until one of us kicks the bucket. So really its all about how much per month.

I would expect that a decent lawyer could draft an agreement to protect my financial interests, while allowing as quick and safe(well atleast no less safe then leaving now) exist with separation issues already resolved/covered by an agreement. Pay what I would be obligated to pay, but not getting penalized for staying under same roof.

Am I missing a risk?
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:52 AM
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pfft

Your wife can blow this out of the water easily. You can draw up all the nice little agreements you want but she will require independent legal advice. I can't imagine a lawyer who would encourage her to agree to this.

just sayin
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:11 AM
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These seem like problems I would face if I moved forward with exiting now. If they aren't resolvable that would become evidence we can't make it work.

Was I being unreasonable in a particular point that would cause her lawyer to reject it? Or you are just pointing out her lawyer will push her to maximize what she can get. If she chooses to accept such advice, than you are right, it wont work and we might not even be able to settle out of court.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:52 AM
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As an outsider, your Offer comes across to me as incredibly controlling, especially financially, and biased heavily towards your needs. Did she have input into it? You are dealing exclusively with money as though your relationship was always about money, and not acknowledging her non-financial contributions. If you are the higher income earner than I would expect the Courts to also look at you as using your money to influence a situation that is NOT exclusively about money. For example, the clause to trigger the sale of the house if one person wants out - that would most likely be overturned if it is deemed in the child(renís) best interest to remain in their home and school.

Why donít you book an appointment with a separation coach about the logistics of transitioning to co-parents, THEN address the financial piece with a mediator and an independent lawyer each. The finance piece is so codified anyway that there isnít much to discuss. Paying your debt off entirely is the best thing to do right now. It makes splitting everything so much easier.

I would have a timeline in place to move out (that you both agree on). To sweeten the pot, estimate together what the equalization payment to her will be and immediately move about 30% into an account with just her name so she knows she can trust you (and make the commitment that she will get the rest as things are finalized, but having her own money right now, as well as trust in you is important). The last thing you want is for her to start talking to bitter friends who spin your breakup into some horrible unfair tragedy and start booking her appointments with conflict-loving lawyers with dollar signs in their eyes (note: there are excellent collaborative lawyers out there!). And donít date right now. You wonít be a healthy headspace anyways and it just inflames the situation when everything is so raw. Good luck. This is a tough thing to go through.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:15 PM
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Whatever you decide to do, if you enter into an agreement (without your wife having opportunity to obtain independent legal advice) then you should know that even if you live together under your rules, she can, at some time in the future have everything recalculated according to SSAG.

I would strongly suggest that you get legal advice before you proceed. It would be a grave mistake on your part if you have your wife enter into an agreement without her obtaining her own legal advice.

If the marriage is over then end it. Better to pay what you have to pay while you have income to do so than to have your old age lifestyle impacted (yes the courts do order CPP and OAS garnished for SS - I receive payment each and every month indefinitely.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:16 PM
Whataboutbob Whataboutbob is offline
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Seems I'm struggling to communicate accurately .

I get it, best approach is rip the bandage off and go, it may come to that. That's what most people would do. I know what I think is the right move for my situation is, but it is the conflicting information (not just from here, from other places and even lawyers and professionals) that blurs things.

Get a lawyer but watch the fuck out; they take all your money. Maybe be fair and try mediation but watch out the sea of "professionals" they want to bring in will start to cost as much as the traditional court battle. Watch your ass she'll take everything. Don't be an ass she deserves your indefinite support. The courts are biased; no they are not. Damned if you do; damned if you don't. I get it, its the nature of different peoples experiences. Still frusturating

Other than perhaps the trigger on selling the house, I don't know how I'm being remotely controlling or heavy handed if I'm splitting my assets 50/50 (what can be split immediately and then the house after), handing over CS and SS based on SSAG and willing to maintain a house for every ones benefit. The trigger on the house (can be longer than 60 days) is simply to ensure neither of us gets trapped if we find staying under the same roof for a number of years is just not doable (which given most peoples input, its not).


Yes of course make it legal with both sides lawyers.
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whataboutbob View Post
Get a lawyer but watch the fuck out; they take all your money.
Good Lawyer > No Lawyer > Bad Lawyer

So both are correct... depending on what kind of lawyer you get.

Quote:
Watch your ass she'll take everything. Don't be an ass she deserves your indefinite support.
Again, also both true. It is important to be fair, but you have to be aware that the other side may decide not to be fair. So don't be an ass, but watch your ass.

Quote:
The courts are biased; no they are not.
This one has an objective answer. The courts are indeed horribly biased. That said, you appear to be willing to pay indefinite support, so the only way they can hurt you is if you decide to retire "early".

Quote:
I don't know how I'm being remotely controlling or heavy handed if I'm splitting my assets 50/50 (what can be split immediately and then the house after), handing over CS and SS based on SSAG.
I agree with you, I do not think you are being controlling here at all. I think you are naive and hopelessly optimistic, but that is a different problem entirely.

Quote:
I get it, best approach is rip the bandage off and go, it may come to that.
I actually do NOT think you get it. You think that you can wait until things start going badly before you rip off the bandage.

What we are trying to tell you is that when things start going badly, you will not be able to rip off the bandage, and you will be stuck in the horrible process that so many of us have experienced. Right now you have an amicable relationship, this is the only time you can have an amicable separation. You need to jump on this while you can.

Today you can get this done cheaply and still remain friends. If you wait a year it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars, if not more. Your plan will not work. You have a better chance of winning the lottery. I think almost every divorced couple where cheating is not an issue has considered your plan. Financially it is so much better, life just moves on, but you're free!

...but it never works.
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  #10  
Old 04-15-2019, 03:57 PM
Whataboutbob Whataboutbob is offline
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Thank-you for the lengthy post, I appreciate the feed back. Not sure I'm convinced in my specific case, says I'm sure every fool about to embark on ill-advised adventure.

Whether that is my hubris or careful consideration of my own circumstances, time will tell.


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