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  • Who can represent?

    Do you really need a lawyer to draft all your documents? With this forum, and the amount of information available online, plus the amount of books available, do you really need a lawyer to represent you? How does self-representation work? Has anyone had experience with this?

  • #2
    If you can afford a lawyer, I'd pay for their services. They've spent many years studying the law and know how the system works.
    I have represented myself on two occasions and won my case each time. Once my ex started a motion and once it was I. Can't afford a lawyer and don't qualify for legal aid.
    Representing yourself means you spend a ton of time researching, waiting to get advice from Duty Counsel (at Family Law Information Clinic or FLIC for short), fill out and serve documents, file them at court, the WAITING... It takes a lot of time and you don't always get the documents filled out properly the first time.
    But yes, you can do it yourself without a lawyer. I'd rather pay a lawyer if I could.

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    • #3
      I think the best bet is to use a lawyer but perhaps to represent you in court only. You can do the research and pay for advice. I find where peoples legal costs increase is in communicating with the other parties lawyer on a regular basis.

      The true benefit we have found with a lawyer is their court room services. Do you know when you can interrupt in a court room, or perhaps the rules... if you are self representing against another lawyer you also lose out because the court will generally count on the other parties lawyer to explain most of the infomation.

      They will hurt you with that. I would use a lawyer too but have very specific expectations to keep costs down.

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      • #4
        Unless you are very familiar with lawyer and VERY comfortable speaking in front of people (like judges) I would normally default and use a lawyer.

        However, you manage your lawyer. You can do grunt work and filings and advise the lawyer not to deal with the ex's nonsense. You can keep costs down by using your lawyer like a tool for court, not as a means of support.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
          Do you really need a lawyer to draft all your documents? With this forum, and the amount of information available online, plus the amount of books available, do you really need a lawyer to represent you? How does self-representation work? Has anyone had experience with this?
          IMO - self-representing isn't for the faint of heart - and there is clearly an element of risk to it, but on the other hand, it is significantly cheaper. I have been self-represented up until now in the process which is 3 months from trial. I may even represent myself during the trial, but I haven't yet decided.

          What I can say, from my own personal experience, is that I have saved at LEAST $10k so far with hearings and filings. It's not something that is impossible to do on your own, but you'd better be prepared to do a lot of reading

          For what it's worth, I decided to self-represent as long as I can, and if I think I need a lawyer at trial, I can hire one. My best decision was not using a lawyer for all of the routine hearings, documents and filings - at probably $300/hour, my retainer would have been gone in a flash.

          Message me privately if you have questions about my experiences (good and bad lol)

          Rick

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          • #6
            My girlfriend is very intelligent and understands family court, contract writing, and can speak very well in public. She is extremely intelligent and is able to make incredible speeches. She has prepared my entire case and I have been told it is pretty solid but have not hired a lawyer for my case because I cannot afford it. I was wondering if she can represent me? The reason I see objections is because she is not a lawyer and because she is close to me, being my girlfriend. Any advice on that?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kevin_Hill88 View Post
              My girlfriend is very intelligent and understands family court, contract writing, and can speak very well in public. She is extremely intelligent and is able to make incredible speeches. She has prepared my entire case and I have been told it is pretty solid but have not hired a lawyer for my case because I cannot afford it. I was wondering if she can represent me? The reason I see objections is because she is not a lawyer and because she is close to me, being my girlfriend. Any advice on that?
              She is not a lawyer and therefore cannot represent you, or anybody, in family court. Paralegal's are also prohibited from representing people in family court.

              You can either a) self represent or b) hire a lawyer.

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              • #8
                That's what I thought. Yeah, I'm going to try for a lawyer and self represent if not.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kevin_Hill88 View Post
                  My girlfriend is very intelligent and understands family court, contract writing, and can speak very well in public. She is extremely intelligent and is able to make incredible speeches. She has prepared my entire case and I have been told it is pretty solid but have not hired a lawyer for my case because I cannot afford it. I was wondering if she can represent me? The reason I see objections is because she is not a lawyer and because she is close to me, being my girlfriend. Any advice on that?

                  You watch too many movies. You can make all the incredible speeches in the world , if it's "out of bounds" the Judge will tear you to shreds.

                  Number one issues with self reps: Can't separate emotions from facts. Trust me on this, Judges are VERY busy and don't like hearing who the ex is an ass. They want the case, the law and what you want. End of story.

                  You need to know the law and a half decent lawyer will absolutely murder a self rep.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by danzuchy View Post
                    You watch too many movies. You can make all the incredible speeches in the world , if it's "out of bounds" the Judge will tear you to shreds.

                    Number one issues with self reps: Can't separate emotions from facts. Trust me on this, Judges are VERY busy and don't like hearing who the ex is an ass. They want the case, the law and what you want. End of story.

                    You need to know the law and a half decent lawyer will absolutely murder a self rep.
                    That'a a real generalization to suggest that a self rep can't keep the emotions out and it isn't true. Granted, that is the case with some, but others are able to do that.

                    Being self-represented against a lawyer clearly is a disadvantage, however, many lawyers hate going against a self-represented individual as typically the judge keeps this into consideration and actually can give a self-rep a lot more leeway.

                    Sure, it's not an ideal situation, but sometimes it's the best way to proceed although not the easiest.

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                    • #11
                      I guess my question was not as clear...we are not at the point of going to court yet, and if we have to, then we will have a lawyer, but I am getting tired of paying our lawyer to receive a petty letter from her lawyer, then send it to us, then us send out response to him and then back to her lawyer...I feel if she wants to change or alter something in her agreement, we can have her lawyer send it right to us, and use the lawyer on an as need basis, or when things actually start to get settled... right now we are just trying to get the separation agreement done, and for the most part they are both able to talk things out, so to me going back and forth through lawyers about little points to ass, such as she must provide all school documents to father, seems rather pricey for what you get.

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                      • #12
                        This thread has brought the essence of what I now most fear will be my reality. My Health means I must retain the lawyer, self rep is basically out. Behind it all I have worked really hard at getting and understanding the "rules", what I need to have ready - I am very close to being ready, just need to transcribe my notes into type so another person can read it. I am trying to prepare the clearest picture I can. I am not seeking the world, just what is offered by rights as dictated in the Family Law Act. Now with six months seperation, maybe 10 minutes at the mediator before that broke down and nothing has really changed since.

                        So I go forward and put the application in - she is not negotiating, communicating even on the smallest of issues - for her it is take half and run no discussion. So as Berner_Faith described so well how do you set up something that prevents just that? Lawyers mickey mousing money down the drain. And if she tries the self rep it may be even worse - either way every little letter, email, phone call and....... and then I am broke.

                        Is there a list of sorts, that spells out clearly a good set of ground rules that a lawyer may accept as a reasonable way of doing business, that lets us do the grunt work and really only pay the lawyer the "least" amount and still get the job done "right"?

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                        • #13
                          Unfortunately I have found that most lawyers do not want to work in the fashion you two are looking for. It is their job after all.

                          You can try to cosy up to a family lawyer somewhere - and see if they will help you without retainer on an hourly basis. I tried to do just that several times and was never succesfull.

                          Assuming you could find one - you would go in for a meeting of, say an hour, and then write a cheque when you leave.

                          To do that you have to be able to express your case very compentently to the lawyer. Because believe me - alot of the BS you think is important is just emotional crap and totally irrelevent.

                          So in order to effectively manage your time/cost with the lawyer - you would need to be familier with both the law and the rules anyway. Otherwise you end up walking away with no real help, as you didn't ask the right questions.

                          So yes. In theory... it is posssible.

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                          • #14
                            So in order to effectively manage your time/cost with the lawyer - you would need to be familier with both the law and the rules anyway. Otherwise you end up walking away with no real help, as you didn't ask the right questions.
                            You nailed that one right on! As I have tried to suggest to my wife that she needs to really begin to understand this as the lawyers can only advise based on the info you provide - give them the wrong details and there answer can be out in right field...... and if she expects to pay a lawyer to figure this out for her it might as well be a very large open cheque. Otherwise.....

                            I believe you are right - had to ask though. Because of medical issues I have actually only found one lawyer willing to speak with me so I want/need to be real careful I do not screw that up. I wanted to be able to sit with two or three before choosing and i have contacted so many now.

                            People, including me, still have a hard time accepting that the parts of Family Law dealing with the accident, injury benefits which I have been dealing with for the last 25 years is something that I finally asked one lawyer that just turned me down directly. He said "in 28 years I know of not one individual that has been through our local courts with even close to what you have struggled with most of your life. I just do not know that area of family law and the amount of time I would need to research essentially from the beginning and your settlement will hinge on it, I and probably everyone else here that you have spoken with are not comfortable taking that responsability on and the amount of billable research time would be too cost prohibative".

                            But if anyone had something to add ;-) -- all ideas are welcome!

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                            • #15
                              The way we have decided to deal with this, has been to thank our lawyer for his time, he did tell us at the start that if we had to go to court he would not represent us, as he does not do court representations. Which was fine with us, so we are going to do all the communicating back at forth, and he has agreed to be a legal advisor for us, and anything he does do for us, will come out of our retainer we left him.

                              Comment

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