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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    I can only offer the advice seen in continuing records and from custody and access evaluators about statements from a 6 year old at the time of separation. Remember they may be saying things with a hope that their parents get back together.
    I am not saying "don't listen to the child" but... Listen with the child's ears and not your adult ears. Also, have someone else listen to the child who is not emotionally involved in the matter listen and provide their feedback.


    Good Luck!
    Tayken
    Again, good advice.

    Yes, my daughter does STILL say she wants up to get back together. But I have clarified her reasoning, and it is so she can see both of us everyday. She says she likes things the way they are, she just wants to see us both all the time. Quite understandable.

    Yes, I accept that I am somewhat biased, and so are the other people who have told me some of the things she has said happened. But I am also a very reasonable person, and I understand that my perception is different from hers. That is why I want to have someone professional talk to her. To reassure me (hopefully) and provide her the support she needs

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    • #17
      I have an SA (in progress) and in it - it states that neither parent will talk negatively about the other to the kids. Mine gets around this by talking loudly to other adults while the children are present...in her mind deniability because she didn't talk TO the kids about me. Its is hugely frustrating and upsetting. The kids have never asked me about anything and I don't push or "investigate" - but when these other adults approach me - advising what she has said - in front of the kids - it frustrates me even more. These adults are concerned for the kids as am I. We had even gone to a counsellor who stated that negative remarks should not be made in front of the kids. The ex's response...."I'm not going to do that - I can't hide the truth from my kids" It is an attempt to garner sympathy - I push past it and love my kids even more when I have them. Frustrating for you I'm sure...stay strong and focused.

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      • #18
        If these other adults were so concerned about your wife speaking negatively to them in front of the kids, they could simply address when it happens by telling her they feel it's wrong or they aren't interested in hearing it entirely. Telling YOU isn't the solution to getting her to stop, telling HER is. If they were really THAT concerned to begin with. Sounds like they're more interested in stirring the pot then they are concerned.

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        • #19
          Have broached that very thing Blink.....responses back are that they feel she needs to vent and they want to allow her to do that - but have tried to steer the conversation away from in front of the kids. Many have now reached a point where they have specifically said please don't talk to me about it....and when they do -she simply moves to the next person....the unfortunate thing is that the statements are made in front of the kids.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
            If these other adults were so concerned about your wife speaking negatively to them in front of the kids, they could simply address when it happens by telling her they feel it's wrong or they aren't interested in hearing it entirely. Telling YOU isn't the solution to getting her to stop, telling HER is. If they were really THAT concerned to begin with. Sounds like they're more interested in stirring the pot then they are concerned.
            That is so true... my bf's ex constantly talks negative about him to other adults when the kids are around... however these other adults are always his family... his brother/sister in law, his mother and his father... however, none of these adults seem to have the guts to tell her to knock it off... unfortunately until the other adults can be adults, it most likely won't stop.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by thefunone View Post
              Have broached that very thing Blink.....responses back are that they feel she needs to vent and they want to allow her to do that - but have tried to steer the conversation away from in front of the kids. Many have now reached a point where they have specifically said please don't talk to me about it....and when they do -she simply moves to the next person....the unfortunate thing is that the statements are made in front of the kids.
              I do get it, everyone needs an outlet to vent. What they need to get is that HER need to vent does not come before the best interests of the kids. If they are truly concerned about the well-being of the children, they would shutdown the conversation as soon as it starts and offer an ear to listen when the kids aren't present.

              It sucks that someone else needs to tell her what is appropriate or not in front of her own kids.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                If these other adults were so concerned about your wife speaking negatively to them in front of the kids, they could simply address when it happens by telling her they feel it's wrong or they aren't interested in hearing it entirely. Telling YOU isn't the solution to getting her to stop, telling HER is. If they were really THAT concerned to begin with. Sounds like they're more interested in stirring the pot then they are concerned.
                From my experience, this rarely happens. It takes a very strong individual to stand up to this person. Which is why bulling is so hard to stop. Bystanders, family, friends, strangers, feel it is not their place to step in. If they do say something, it is usually not forceful enough.

                If your ex felt it was in any way inappropriate to say these things, they would not be doing so. They don't see anything wrong with what they are saying or doing. That is why the other adults present need to be very candid in their response and their posturing.

                These other adults need to be a strong advocate for the children, and most cannot do this. They don't want to get involved, they don't think its there place to step in. If you are communicating to some of these people you need to tell them how important it is for your children that they step in and say something.

                Your children need to hear someone tell their mom that this is not okay, because they are learning that this is okay. They are learning that they are not important and you are not important.

                My ex used to say inappropriate stuff all the time, still does, and I would wonder why no one said anything to him. I could sometimes see the shock on their faces and yet they would say nothing.

                After we separated, a couple said to me that they felt what stbx said was mean, that he was mean spirited, but he was their friend and felt they couldn't say anything. Now I find this a very bazaar reason, however, they remain his friend.

                Our kids are learning that stbx behaviour is tolerated by others. They sometimes feel that they are wrong when they stand up to their dad. They are crazy because they don't see any adult challenging him.

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                • #23
                  update...more!

                  ok, so it continues...

                  Ex took my daughter fishing this weekend. My daughter didn't tell me they were going away until right before I dropped her off at school Friday, and he tells me nothing. Since they were going fishing, I told her that she must be sure to wear a lifejacket on the boat, and to look out for poison ivy. I made sure to explain how important the lifejacket was (she has one at my house and uses it regularly) and showed her pics of poison ivy on my phone.

                  So when I picked her up last night she started telling me about fishing, what she caught etc. Then she told me that she wore a lifejacket on the big boat, but not on the little one. I asked her to tell me about the boats. The little boat had a motor.

                  I was floored! My daughter cannot swim, she is only 5, and he took her on a motorboat without a lifejacket on! Nevermind that it is against the law, did he not realize that if she fell out that she was likely to drown? I know it is over, and she is safe now, but I have to question his ability to keep her safe!

                  I explained to my daughter how upset I was because she was not kept safe. I explained that it was not her fault (she told me she said she wanted a lifejacket but her dad said it was ok becasue the boat didn't go too fast! ) At that point I explained that if she fell out even if the boat wasn't moving that she could drown. I told her it was sort of like riding in a car without a seatbelt, or riding a bike or motorcycle without a helmet. I also told her that if her dad had told me they were going I would have sent her lifejacket with her. I reassured her that it was not her fault, and I was not mad at her. She seemed to understand that her dad made a bad decision.

                  We are almost through mediation and I don't want to jeopardize our chances of closing on most of the issues. I have decided to wait until out next meeting (next week) to bring this up to her father, in front of the mediator, in order to find out the truth. This does not sit well with me, and along with the alleged spanking, calling her a liar, continual conflict etc Ihave to question whether this arrangement is causing more harm to my daughter.

                  She is "safe" this time, but she is only 5 (almost 6). Should she be expected to keep herself safe (remember a lifejacket, buckle up, understand that he father doesn't "mean it" when he calls her names) at this age? It is a parent's job to protect her, and I can't protect her from the "harm" he causes or the risk he exposes her to.

                  I don't know what to do. I want to ask for the OCL again, but unless they do a thorough investigation they will just end up supporting the SQ again. At what point do I fight to keep her "safe" and how long/ how much risk/damage has to be done first? Her dad was very mentally abusive with me, and I am worried that things will only escalate for her. Its been 3 years, it's not getting any better, and now he's started in on her too

                  PLEASE HELP!

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                  • #24
                    I remember when I was a kid fishing with my dad. The life jacket was cumbersome for fishing.

                    I usually sat on my jacket as a kid, it was easier. When the boat was moving, I had to put it on. When we were stationary, I was allowed to take it off.

                    My dad was right there also, so there was little chance of me drowning.

                    Do you believe the child should also wear a life jacket when fishing off the docks or by the beach?

                    IMO, the parent should be able to use their reasonable judgment here. Is it likely the child will drown or otherwise injure themselves here? Not really. Would the parent be in trouble should an OPP boat happen along? Probably. But this is one of a, pick you battles matters. The risk was minimal. Yes, the child can't swim.....but can the parent who has the child at that time swim? How far off shore were they? In the "little boat" it is unlikely they were in the middle of the lake. Most likely fishing near the shores where fishing is generally best.

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                    • #25
                      Thanks Hammer. Maybe I need to wait until he can explain the situation. It is just that we can't even communicate. I dont want to question my daughter about what happens on "dad's time", I don't want her to feel pressured, but he wont talk to me except to throw accusations. If he could talk reasonably with me then I'm sure I could trust his judgement. But when all I get is snippets and angry responses I just don't know.

                      As for the lifejacket...on a beach...absolutely not. But on a dock, maybe, if it was a floating dock.

                      But on a boat...absolutely. My father ALWAYS made us wear one, all the time, no matter if the boat was moving or not. I'm sure we would have been allowed to take it off if we were good swimmers once we weren't moving, but we sold the boat before I got to that point

                      EVEN IF he was thinking the way you are (lifejacket getting in the way) it does NOT set a good example for her to be allowed to not wear one AT ALL while the boat is moving, OR on her first boat/fishing trip. She is a very active kid, and I know it would be hard for her to sit still, she would be so excited.

                      It sets a bad prescendence if he doesn't enforce basic safety rules on her "firsts". If the rules are never enforced (or he doesn't even set rules) then how is she supposed to learn how to judge safety for herself? It's not like he is a weekend dad just breaking the rules so they can have fun, he has her 50%, and thus is responsisble for teaching her and keeping her safe 50% of the time!!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                        Do you believe the child should also wear a life jacket when fishing off the docks or by the beach?
                        Absolutely. IMO, if the kid can't swim they should be in a lifejacket whenever they are in/around a body of water until they ARE able to swim at a certain level, whether that's a pool, beach, dock, boat or other.

                        Even young children who CAN swim should be in a lifejacket when they`re more than an arm`s reach away from their parents.

                        The Lifesaving Society has advice and guidelines for parents for accident prevention: Lifesaving Society | Home

                        Every parent should read it.

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