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  • COVID Vacation Court Ruling

    Just came across this interesting article.

    .

    https://apple.news/AyNCIgdXGQcuwMQshe5VhtQ

  • #2
    Apple News sucks.

    https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-risk-too-high

    Comment


    • #3
      The reasons for decision were also interesting.

      Also of note that she didn’t file properly and dad only had 24 hours to prepare with the motion.


      https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...0onsc4391.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Sometimes, you can tell that a judge has never had personal experience with a particular situation, and is completely unable to relate.

        This is one of those times.

        The ruling is ridiculous.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Janus View Post
          Sometimes, you can tell that a judge has never had personal experience with a particular situation, and is completely unable to relate.

          This is one of those times.

          The ruling is ridiculous.

          I thought the same thing. I was reading cases on canlii yesterday and as soon as I saw judge allowed it to proceed despite the mother not filing properly I knew it wouldn’t go well.

          Considering that we are now allowed bigger bubbles and they had separate bathrooms I thought this decision was just ridiculous. The problem now is they set precedent for a gatekeeper parent preventing the other parent from taking a child on vacation. Plus they wasted the courts time on a useless case.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
            Considering that we are now allowed bigger bubbles and they had separate bathrooms I thought this decision was just ridiculous. The problem now is they set precedent for a gatekeeper parent preventing the other parent from taking a child on vacation. Plus they wasted the courts time on a useless case.
            Both Toronto and Windsor/Essex in end of June/early July remained in Stage 1/ 2, with no "bigger bubble". At that stage, I agree with this decision.

            If dad had uninvited his sister/cousins out of his proposed bubble cottage and narrowed down the numbers, kept it inclusive to himself and his parents with kidlet, he would have likely had a better argument. Simple solution, and a great vacation.
            Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, a completely ridiculous decision.



              If I was that Dad, I would have kept details of who was attending under wraps. They are already high-conflict anyway - Mom has a history of interfering with Dad's summer plans.



              Poor kid. Judge enabled Mom's behavior.

              Comment


              • #8
                COVID Vacation Court Ruling

                Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                Both Toronto and Windsor/Essex in end of June/early July remained in Stage 1/ 2, with no "bigger bubble". At that stage, I agree with this decision.

                If dad had uninvited his sister/cousins out of his proposed bubble cottage and narrowed down the numbers, kept it inclusive to himself and his parents with kidlet, he would have likely had a better argument. Simple solution, and a great vacation.

                BUT ... this was Ottawa at beginning of July which had been in stage 2 for almost a month at the time of hearing.

                I respectfully disagree especially since mom had a history of interfering.

                Should also note that the dad won a previous motion for a set parenting plan which outlines the mother’s false allegations of alcohol abuse and trying to take away his vacation time while providing her additional time and sending the child (who was 7 at the time) to sleep away camp instead of time with dad.
                Last edited by rockscan; 07-22-2020, 09:48 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Having a similar ex, all i can say is the best advice is to not provide the information. "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".

                  It is unfortunate and the father will likely be required to pay the legal fees as an added bonus.

                  I can understand the discomfort with the situation on the mother's part but not really sure the courts need to / should intervene in this case.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                    Both Toronto and Windsor/Essex in end of June/early July remained in Stage 1/ 2, with no "bigger bubble". At that stage, I agree with this decision.

                    If dad had uninvited his sister/cousins out of his proposed bubble cottage and narrowed down the numbers, kept it inclusive to himself and his parents with kidlet, he would have likely had a better argument. Simple solution, and a great vacation.
                    I'm with you- he wasn't trying to double his bubble- he was trying to triple it.

                    Also- during this time- even if your ex is trying to be crazy and controlling- you should still really give consideration to a request to a parent related to Covid. Dad should've listened to mom's request to cancel it.

                    D3's preschool has been open since the beginning of July. I wanted to send her back because I was satisfied with the procedures they had in place from the local health unit. And I felt comfortable. Her dad did not. He didn't really have any good articulated reasons other than he wasn't comfortable with it. But since he lives with his at risk mom- that was good enough for me. I agreed to wait an additional two weeks to ensure that our city continued to have downward trending numbers after entering Stage 2. And if the numbers increased- keep her out for the remainder of the summer. I have sole custody- I could've just said "I hear you- but I'm going to do it anyways". And knowing my ex- maybe he was trying to be controlling? maybe he just wanted a fight? I dunno. But in these times- despite a history or conflict- I think it's worth considering just doing what the other parent asks if it's at all reasonable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gilligan View Post
                      Having a similar ex, all i can say is the best advice is to not provide the information.
                      Young kids openly and excitingly talk to both their parents. Its normal for the kids to randomly blurt out to mom on how excited they are for their upcoming trip with Dad. As with most parents, there is desire to want to build up some excitement to the kids for an upcoming holiday.

                      Suggesting that dad keep quiet leading up to the vacation? With the kids, he was building excitement. With the Mom, he likely thought he was being a good co-parent and not 'sneaking around' by telling her they planned on being away for a week. Afterall, the kids will almost certainly tell stories of the fun they had to mom after the holiday is over. Then Dad would get grilled after the fact by mom. Just sad and petty.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LovingDad1234 View Post
                        Suggesting that dad keep quiet leading up to the vacation?
                        Generally speaking, I do not provide my ex with any information unless she needs to know.

                        ...and this case is the reason.

                        I give my ex exactly zero warning of any plans I might have during my parenting time unless I am planning on leaving the country. The kids are free to tell her anything they want, but I would ignore any message she sent me unless I felt she needed to know.

                        There are seven billion people on this planet; only one of them has ever tried to take my kids away from me. I would have to be crazy to tell her anything.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Janus View Post
                          Generally speaking, I do not provide my ex with any information unless she needs to know.
                          What about telling your kids ahead of time of an upcoming cottage retreat to build some excitement? Or if your kids ask what you will be doing for summer vacation? Do you just stay quiet and not tell the kids of your plans?

                          I try to limit exposure of my plans ahead of time, however, I get berated in a controlling manner after the fact with questions like "the kids tell me you went to a cottage??? When was that???". I just tell her we had fun, and walk away.

                          Originally posted by Janus View Post
                          There are seven billion people on this planet; only one of them has ever tried to take my kids away from me.
                          Agreed. I think back at how HARD my ex fought to try to limit my kids time with me to such a miniscule amount. It was deplorable and disgusting to see how low one can sink to try to keep a child away from their parent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There is no need to tell your kids where you are going unless they a) need to book time off their job and b) you are going to disneyland. A simple “we will have fun this summer” is fine. What if the trip got cancelled? Or one of you got sick? Then the whole excitement is ruined.

                            As for your ex, basic details are fine especially if you are leaving the city/province/country. If they badger you after the fact a simple “yep we had fun thanks for asking” is acceptable.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We are going to our camper this long weekend. I went earlier in July as well. My ex, who can be difficult, didn't even bat an eye-lash.

                              Ontario's numbers are low. Being a cottage with few people around is likely safer than going to a grocery store in the city.

                              If my ex tried this, my daughter would likely try to move in with me. D is nearly 15 and has mentioned it a few times in the past. D loves the camper, she calls it one of her happy places. If my ex try to take that away from her, it would definitely create a rift.

                              Comment

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