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  • Travel Consent

    I have posted about this in the past, but need some additional advice.

    History.

    Booked a cruise for Myself, Dad, and 2 kids. Kids were free because of a special promotion.
    Airfare is booked for all 4 of us and the kids can be cancelled for $75.00.
    Travel dates are Nov 30th - Dec 9th.
    DRO Case Conference Nov 20th

    My STBX has refused to sign travel consent for a while now. She was notified of the travel plans in July. I have kept the reservation open and plan on travelling with or without the kids. I was willing to lose the $150.00 to cancel the kids airfare.

    My lawyer said we could schedule a motion after the DRO CC but would cost around $3000.00 which I was not willing to do because of the cost.

    My stbx has been requesting some changes to our schedule and has some requests for the Christmas break. I have not agreed to a Christmas schedule yet due to some uncertain plans with my family.

    I told her I would agree to her Christmas requests if she would agree to my travel consent.

    She now is accusing me of trying to bribe her. I clearly see this as a negotiation. Any way she considered the proposed change and I guess she talked to her lawyer. Her lawyer recommend she not sign the travel consent.

    Now to my main question.

    She has told me via text that since I'm going to be away I'm going to need to get someone to watch the kids for my parenting time (every other day / alternate weekends).

    I replied that if she is refusing to let the kids travel with me it is her responsibility as the other parent to watch the kids while I am away.

    She said that I have commitments to the children and I need to find alternate care. She has talked to her lawyer and she knows her rights. She also said it will be on record that I have abandoned them during my trip.

    The whole trip thing is already on my Case Conference brief which I will be signing tomorrow.

    I guess I'm having difficulty understanding how she can refuse for me to take the kids and then claim I'm abandoning them at the same time and I need to find someone to care for them since I am willing to care for them.

    If this is in fact the case I might reconsider the motion.

    She IMO does not want me to be able to have fun with or without the kids.

    Thanks
    Last edited by FB_; 11-07-2012, 04:41 PM.

  • #2
    Take the kids without a consent letter, or cancel the trip altogether. You are just playing into her game, this is conflict for the sake of conflict.

    Document all of this, present it to the judge, get a ruling on travel arrangements, and live with it.

    You don't have that kind of order yet, so making the plans was a crapshoot. She is an ass, that is clear, but you can't get a court order to make someone a better person.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      Take the kids without a consent letter, or cancel the trip altogether. You are just playing into her game, this is conflict for the sake of conflict.

      Document all of this, present it to the judge, get a ruling on travel arrangements, and live with it.

      You don't have that kind of order yet, so making the plans was a crapshoot. She is an ass, that is clear, but you can't get a court order to make someone a better person.
      I figured it was a crapshoot for the kids not for myself. I guess I was mistaken.

      I guess it will be discussed at the Case Conference.

      Wouldn't taking the kids without a consent letter make it worse? I most probably could get across the border with them without one since I have NEVER been asked in the numerous times I have traveled across the border with them alone previous to our separation.

      Comment


      • #4
        IMHO .. and in my experience of traveling MANY MANY times with minor children ... what I suggest is that you keep your trip plans BUT have a "back up" ... ie. grandparent or one of your siblings (your brother or sister) on standby and at the airport when you are departing. IF they question you (which I am betting they won't) and refuse to allow children to travel then they can stay with their grandparents or aunt/uncle.

        I have a different last name then my 3 kids and we travel EXTENSIVELY (out of Pearson by air and by car at either the Peace Bridge or Rainbow Bridge) and I have NEVER been asked for any kind of letter when leaving Canada.

        I have only been asked once and that was at Pearson at 1:00am upon return from a weeks vacation in the DR with the kids' ... told them I didn't have a letter but after a 6 hr delay with 4 kids, if they felt their was an issue with me RETURNING to Canada with said kids' they were more then welcome to keep them and contact the other parent ... (NOT something I'd suggest saying but I was bone tired and frazzled beyond belief) ... they laughed and sent us on our way.

        Your ex is being an ASS ... plain and simple ... 99% you'll all be able to go on your vacation and have a great time and that's what I'd plan for but I always have a "back up" scenario arranged.

        PS ~ my kids are now 20, 15 & 13 but we've been separated/divorced since they were 10, 5 & 3

        Comment


        • #5
          Go to court and get an order dispensing with her consent. If the kids are not missing school and it is a nice holiday, and you tell your story to the judge, they will direct a quick order dispensing with need for wife's approval to travel which you will carry with you. you must show that you have provided itinerary to wife and contact numbers to ensure that Mother knows where kids are at all times.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by beebie View Post
            Go to court and get an order dispensing with her consent. If the kids are not missing school and it is a nice holiday, and you tell your story to the judge, they will direct a quick order dispensing with need for wife's approval to travel which you will carry with you. you must show that you have provided itinerary to wife and contact numbers to ensure that Mother knows where kids are at all times.
            I have considered this. But it is expensive. ~$3000.00

            It is during school, but it's JK and grade 2 so I don't think that's that big of a deal and I would of course be getting their homework and have them do it during the trip.

            I would like them to come but if they don't I get it. However, I'm more concerned about her position that I have to find someone to watch them for "my" time even though I have offered to watch them for the whole time and offered makeup time.

            I have also informed her of all my travel plans. Cruise Ship, Locations, Phone numbers and flights.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would have the lawyer draft up the travel consent (it is really quite easy) and mail it to your STBX with a letter stating that here is the consent for her to sign and send to you. Should she be unreasonable and not sign, you will seek an order from the court dispensing with the need for her consent and costs for the action.

              State it is in the children's best interests to spend quality time away and that such a trip will not likely affect their educational needs. That should she be willing to consent, you would be willing to consider conceding to her revised holiday schedule as a sign of good faith.

              But you have to follow through. Going on the trip is not unreasonable. Although, you should have pushed for this ages ago.

              Make sure the travel consent provides clear information about the trip, departures/arrival/destinations/contact numbers/times for her to call the kids etc. Be willing to provide her with a prepaid phone card to mitigate the costs of calls.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                I would have the lawyer draft up the travel consent (it is really quite easy) and mail it to your STBX with a letter stating that here is the consent for her to sign and send to you. Should she be unreasonable and not sign, you will seek an order from the court dispensing with the need for her consent and costs for the action.

                State it is in the children's best interests to spend quality time away and that such a trip will not likely affect their educational needs. That should she be willing to consent, you would be willing to consider conceding to her revised holiday schedule as a sign of good faith.

                But you have to follow through. Going on the trip is not unreasonable. Although, you should have pushed for this ages ago.

                Make sure the travel consent provides clear information about the trip, departures/arrival/destinations/contact numbers/times for her to call the kids etc. Be willing to provide her with a prepaid phone card to mitigate the costs of calls.
                This has been an ongoing back and forth between lawyers racking up expenses since July. Back in September I made the decision to not spend any more money on it. I asked my lawyer his thoughts on not cancelling and keeping the option open at the risk of only $150.00. He said we could bring it up at the case conference (Nov 20th) which we will. But an order can only be made on consent. He asked me if I was willing to file the motion at a potential cost of $3000.00 which I "might" get back if we won, but might have to pay her costs if we lost. I made the decision not to go this route. When she asked for changes to the Christmas schedule I said I would agree if she would sign the travel consent. She got angry and is now threatening the trip with or without the kids.

                Anyway it will be discussed at the case conference however I don't expect her to agree. So i'm just trying to plan ahead for all possible outcomes.

                It's funny her response to my court application had a point in it that at no time should the kids be put in third party care when she is more than available to watch them. Now she is demanding third party care when she is available.

                I know there is no point trying to find logic in a high conflict persons arguments. Either way I'm assuming the judge "might" look at all of this at a later point but who knows.

                Comment


                • #9
                  IMO, it is more to put the fear in her that you will take her to court and cause her rack up legal bills and that she may also have to pay for yours.

                  Right now, IMO, she is playing off the fact that you are likely going to back down. If you start putting the pressure back on her and show that you are willing to be reasonable, but should she be unwilling to negotiate/be reasonable, you will take her to court and she could end up looking like quite the heel and have to pay your costs.

                  But should she think you are bluffing and is willing to call your "bluff", you have to show that you weren't bluffing and that she will have to explain her position to the courts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                    IMO, it is more to put the fear in her that you will take her to court and cause her rack up legal bills and that she may also have to pay for yours.

                    Right now, IMO, she is playing off the fact that you are likely going to back down. If you start putting the pressure back on her and show that you are willing to be reasonable, but should she be unwilling to negotiate/be reasonable, you will take her to court and she could end up looking like quite the heel and have to pay your costs.

                    But should she think you are bluffing and is willing to call your "bluff", you have to show that you weren't bluffing and that she will have to explain her position to the courts.
                    I have an appointment with my lawyer today to sign my case conference brief. I will discuss it with him then.

                    Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In looking at this from the outside, she is ready and willing to take, but is unwilling to give. This is unreasonable. You guys are in a scenario where one must negoatiate and come to a reasonable concensus in order to make progress.

                      But if she is only willing to take, then you have to set some boundaries and let her know that her position is going to cost her.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I received the signed travel consent letter yesterday during my case conference in exchange for some Christmas concessions which I was willing to do the whole time.

                        My lawyer later asked her lawyer (after case conference) if we could then take the passports from their current location (we leave in 9 days). STBX threw a fit and said I can't have them until the day we leave. I swear she just has to fight everything. Even her lawyer said to her that I need them to travel. So no consensus was reached on this as she refused. I think I will take the passports tonight to make sure they don't go missing. It would be interesting if she called her lawyer crying because I have the passports and what her lawyer would tell her.

                        So anyway the kids get to come on the trip with me and I am very excited.

                        Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Her saying it's up to you to make arrangements for the children for your access days missed is preposterous.

                          She would prefer the child(s) spend time with a baby-sitter rather than their Mom? Somewhat backwards in my opinion.

                          Don't sweat that detail. I'm pretty sure a Judge will laugh at any 'abandonment' arguement she may present.

                          I wouldn't suggest taking the kids without her consent - it will just ramp up the conflict.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FB_ View Post
                            I received the signed travel consent letter yesterday during my case conference in exchange for some Christmas concessions which I was willing to do the whole time.

                            My lawyer later asked her lawyer (after case conference) if we could then take the passports from their current location (we leave in 9 days). STBX threw a fit and said I can't have them until the day we leave. I swear she just has to fight everything. Even her lawyer said to her that I need them to travel. So no consensus was reached on this as she refused. I think I will take the passports tonight to make sure they don't go missing. It would be interesting if she called her lawyer crying because I have the passports and what her lawyer would tell her.

                            So anyway the kids get to come on the trip with me and I am very excited.

                            Thanks everyone for your input and advice.
                            Oops. Missed this post.

                            Have fun on vacay!

                            Comment

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