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  • #31
    I would tell the ex that you are in agreement that the child should attend her wedding and are willing to facilitate his being there. But you don't agree that it should be at a) your expense or b) that he should lose any parenting time.

    State you will agree to the child being out there for 4 days (5 on the high side, the length is less material if you are getting makeup time) but you want your makeup time first (if you can get the boy for like March Break or sometime when your husband may be able to take time off as he isn't busy, that may work).

    But I'd state that I am not going to be responsible for the extra costs associated with travel due to her decision to plan her wedding date during the period of time that I have historically taken my vacation time with the child and without consultation or consideration of my parenting time.

    They will likely win a battle in court for the child to be there. And you already agree to sacrifice a little so he can. The issue will solely be who will be responsible for the flight, how long it will be for and when will make up time occur. Send out a list of dates that work for you for makeup time of 4 days. 4 days should be plenty of time to go out there. If the wedding is on Saturday, the child flies in on Friday and comes back on Monday. They should be fine. And it isn't like the child is going to a huge part of the wedding anyway. I had my 6y/o daughter in my wedding. Outside of getting her hair done and getting ready, there isn't a lot that kids do. They are great to be there, but they aren't really involved and shouldn't be super tired.

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    • #32
      So update for the day:

      She refuses to discuss it further and will not read any more emails.

      I did talk to a new lawyer, he is willing to take the case, on one condition. He asked the names of his ex and her fiance, well he thinks he knows the fiance. Oh boy.

      We are going to send her an new email, advising that all offers that we have made are still on the table. But we are also going to add a new offer, that she can have him the week before the wedding, up until the 25th, at her expense. We are going to tell her we want the week back during the Christmas leave period, for 2013. That will be our Christmas year, so we would be adding on the New Year portion. Praying she accepts, but doubtful. At least when we go to court and ask for it there, we can prove we have been making reasonable attempts. After talking to the lawyer, I think she will get him for her wedding, at her expense, which we are fine with, as long as we get our time back with him. At the end of the day, he should be there for the wedding, but just not at an access loss to us.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
        I would tell the ex that you are in agreement that the child should attend her wedding and are willing to facilitate his being there. But you don't agree that it should be at a) your expense or b) that he should lose any parenting time.

        State you will agree to the child being out there for 4 days (5 on the high side, the length is less material if you are getting makeup time) but you want your makeup time first (if you can get the boy for like March Break or sometime when your husband may be able to take time off as he isn't busy, that may work).

        But I'd state that I am not going to be responsible for the extra costs associated with travel due to her decision to plan her wedding date during the period of time that I have historically taken my vacation time with the child and without consultation or consideration of my parenting time.

        They will likely win a battle in court for the child to be there. And you already agree to sacrifice a little so he can. The issue will solely be who will be responsible for the flight, how long it will be for and when will make up time occur. Send out a list of dates that work for you for makeup time of 4 days. 4 days should be plenty of time to go out there. If the wedding is on Saturday, the child flies in on Friday and comes back on Monday. They should be fine. And it isn't like the child is going to a huge part of the wedding anyway. I had my 6y/o daughter in my wedding. Outside of getting her hair done and getting ready, there isn't a lot that kids do. They are great to be there, but they aren't really involved and shouldn't be super tired.
        Thank you, you have been a huge help.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by arabian View Post
          I would therefore go ahead and buy the return tickets (ones you can change for nominal fee) showing the dates as per your husband's custody agreement.

          If she want's to purchase tickets for him to come to wedding for a day or two then it's on her dime.

          In the event you end up in front of a judge I would think it is important to show you have made a financial commitment towards your son's summer vacation with you. Chances are she will respond with wedding plans that are made "after" the date of your purchase of the air fare.
          Thank you, it will be on her dime for sure. If she forces us to court, we will be adjusting a few other things in terms of the agreement.

          Comment


          • #35
            A compromise might be that you fly out there with the child (whose ticket she pays for), and have part of your vacation be touring that part of the country, then you can be sure you can pick him up again after the wedding.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Rioe View Post
              A compromise might be that you fly out there with the child (whose ticket she pays for), and have part of your vacation be touring that part of the country, then you can be sure you can pick him up again after the wedding.

              We actually thought about driving out because flights for us would cost about $2,000ish, not including my step-son (who she would have to pay for). Unfortunately right now we just can't swing it. On top of child support, we also pay for a gym membership and pay for all flights (for our access to see him) for his son, we are struggling with this right now. If we had the money, we would just pay to fly him home to be there for his mom's wedding, but we just don't have the spare cash right now, to even drive out, we would also have to pay for hotels and we have 2 small children, they are not fun to travel with, lol.

              Thank you, great advice though!

              Comment


              • #37
                Just a quick update:

                We did have to retain a lawyer. Unfortunately, this isn't a good time financially so we were hoping a simple letter from the lawyer will be enough for her to consider a compromise. The lawyer also advised if it does go to court we can ask for costs. We didn't realize that IF we are awarded costs it probably wouldn't cover the entire expense, and it also depends on the judge we end up getting, if we even get awarded costs. What a wonderful system we have here.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                  We didn't realize that IF we are awarded costs it probably wouldn't cover the entire expense, and it also depends on the judge we end up getting, if we even get awarded costs. What a wonderful system we have here.
                  Costs are awarded on a full indemnity basis or a partial indemnity basis.

                  For costs to be awarded on a full indemnity basis, you pretty much have to be entirely successful in your motion and the other party has to have acted unreasonably.

                  Partial indemnity is generally the norm as it is rare when ones motion is completely successful. However, partial indemnity can still be like 3/4 of the costs.....or as low as 1/4 or so....it just depends on the reasoning for case, the level of reasonableness and who is successful.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                    Costs are awarded on a full indemnity basis or a partial indemnity basis.

                    For costs to be awarded on a full indemnity basis, you pretty much have to be entirely successful in your motion and the other party has to have acted unreasonably.

                    Partial indemnity is generally the norm as it is rare when ones motion is completely successful. However, partial indemnity can still be like 3/4 of the costs.....or as low as 1/4 or so....it just depends on the reasoning for case, the level of reasonableness and who is successful.
                    Thank you.

                    I wonder if our lawyer was "under promising" to "over deliver"? Keep in mind this is all happening in a small town, we have been told by a few lawyers, just outside the area, that things are different in this town. I don't understand how this town could have it's own set of rules. We were told even getting costs awarded would depend on what judge we got, if it goes to court.

                    We have every intention of having examples of case law to provide to our lawyer if it goes to court. Unfortunately, we can't afford to hire a lawyer/go to court, but we don't live in the same province so this is our option.

                    We have offered various compromises to make this happen (every option includes their son being at her wedding, and he should be) and she does not acknowledge his offers and told him she was advised not to discuss this with him further (leaving the impression that a lawyer told her to do this). Our thought is, what lawyer would recommend that you don't discuss and work this out amongst yourselves? We don't believe she actually talked to a lawyer.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      UPDATE:

                      So we had to hire a lawyer, our LOC did actually, basically we sent a letter offering the below choices, that we felt were reasonable.

                      1. We asked if she would fly their son back for her wedding, a day or two before the wedding and then back to us, a day or two after. Any lost time we asked to be made up over Christmas holidays.

                      2. Or we asked for her to adjust her wedding date.

                      Of course, she replied no. And said there is no way she can change the date of her wedding and the extra travel would be far to much for their son (that he would be totally exhausted), who will be 13 at the time. It would be a 1 1/2 hour flight and 1 1/2 hour drive on either end.

                      So it is now going to court. Our lawyer emailed us today, there was a court appearance today so that they could set up a case conference.

                      Apparently the judge said that my husband has to be there for the case conference. This is getting a bit crazy, I thought there was a law ( I could be wrong) that allowed you to hire a lawyer to deal with things like this so you didn't have to travel back and forth if you were out of town. Does anybody know of this?

                      So my husband will have to fly up for the case conference and then the trial, is this an expense you can ask the other party to pay for, if you are "successful?".

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hi Unevenplayingground:

                        I do not know which province this will be litigated in. But, if it is Ontario (and may well apply to other provinces as well), there is the option of attending the case conference via telephone.

                        The party requesting teleconference has to make the request to the other party and the other party must agree (if she didn't it would not look good for her).

                        You need to discuss this with your lawyer.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by mom2three View Post
                          Hi Unevenplayingground:

                          I do not know which province this will be litigated in. But, if it is Ontario (and may well apply to other provinces as well), there is the option of attending the case conference via telephone.

                          The party requesting teleconference has to make the request to the other party and the other party must agree (if she didn't it would not look good for her).

                          You need to discuss this with your lawyer.
                          Thank you mom2three.

                          Very frustrating, process. Of course to drive the cost of everything up, his ex will not agree and force him to travel. It just seems in this day and age we should be able to teleconference/video conference no questions asked.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            So, I thought I would let everybody know what happened. We were "successful". It only cost us $5,400.00 in legal fees, and our lawyer said we would pay for half the cost of the flight.

                            So it will end up costing about $5,700.00, to get what we should have got in the first place. We didn't get any legal fees back, i'm not sure why.

                            So my step-son gets to go to his mother's wedding but she has to return him to us the day after. We would have probably been more reasonable than the judge with timings.

                            So I can't think of anything positive to say about this whole mess. We had to rack up our debt that much more just so we could fight for my husband's and his son's right to spend time together.

                            I would love to hear thoughts on how people think this could have cost less, or how the legal system could be changed to make this process less frustrating?

                            Hopefully, somebody going through the same thing, can read this thread and learn something.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                              So it will end up costing about $5,700.00, to get what we should have got in the first place. We didn't get any legal fees back, i'm not sure why.
                              You are not likely to get costs unless you put forward a Offer to Settle that is equal to or better then what was ordered in the end.

                              Also any award of costs is not automatic and has to be requested both in your request for relief and then during oral arguments.
                              Last edited by Nadia; 06-03-2013, 08:02 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Nadia View Post
                                You are not likely to get costs unless you put forward a Offer to Settle that is equal to or better then what was ordered in the end.

                                Also any award of costs is not automatic and has to be requested both in your request for relief and then during oral arguments.
                                Thanks I didn't know that, we had made an offer to pay a third of the flight, but our lawyer (as we were not there) ended up offering for us to pay for half of the flights.

                                We did have a request that our costs be reimbursed or so much of it, I can't remember how it was worded.

                                Unfortunately, we were not there so we don't know all of the details, and i'm far to scared to call the lawyer for a full explanation, I really can't afford it. In the end we still get our time with him and he still gets to go to the wedding. It is just to bad that it had to come to this.

                                Now my step-son is saying he is going to miss a school bbq (he starts high school in Sep) and how important it is that he goes to this bbq. I wonder where that is coming from.

                                What do you do when one parent is "massaging" the child? How do you turn the focus back on what is important, the relationship between each parent? The child/children should be free of negativity towards either parent.

                                Comment

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