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  • #31
    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    I understand you have a difficult ex but maybe you are being antagonistic? Nit-picking about cigarette butts is just silly.
    I'm blown away. Can you tell me honestly you'd put your own baby in a daycare where overflowing ashtrays were kept on the floor in play areas? Really?

    And as a parent, pointing that out is antagonistic and nitpicking? God I hope someone is looking out for your children better than that. Honestly this is a shocking response.

    Telling me to choose battles or let go of things I have no control over is one thing. Telling me I should keep my mouth shut when my infant daughter plays near a toxic hazard is completely insane. Really.

    Comment


    • #32
      It's in how you "deliver" the message my friend. What you say and how you say things to your ex in the next 6 months may very well set the atmosphere for future drop offs. If there is a full ashtray you could have brought it to her attention in a non-threatening way: "hey Belinda" "is this suzie's new play dough?" - you get the drift. Quit being so confrontational.

      Of course a normal good parent would be upset about any hazardous material around their daughter/son. However, you will not be there all of the time to keep your daughter away from hazardous items. Your daughter may be sitting happily in your own back yard and a wasp stings her. Accidents DO happen and you need to ease off a bit. From what you told us your ex is a very young mother. You will find lots to fault her with in the future. You are setting yourself up for not having any custodial visitations whatsoever if this young mother and her family perceive you to be threatening in any way.

      You have had the experience of having another child. The mother of your young daughter has no experience. Taking a "helping" approach will probably be much more effective in the long term. Encouragement goes a long way.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by arabian View Post
        It's in how you "deliver" the message my friend. What you say and how you say things to your ex in the next 6 months may very well set the atmosphere for future drop offs. If there is a full ashtray you could have brought it to her attention in a non-threatening way: "hey Belinda" "is this suzie's new play dough?" - you get the drift. Quit being so confrontational.
        Please re-read my OP. I wasn't confrontational. If a man who is genuinely concerned about his child is told to fuck off after pointing something out politely, and threatened with his life with the child in earshot, then comes here for advice and is told repeatedly, "stop raising issues dude!" ... I'm supposed to react how, exactly, in your world?

        I was not confrontational. I never said or implied I was confrontational. 6 hours later after telling me to fuck off and threatening my life and the ashtray was still in the play area, I took a photo and sent it on.

        And you're assuming I should shut up and let it go and relax. Amazing.

        Of course a normal good parent would be upset about any hazardous material around their daughter/son.
        Really? Then why are you attacking me?

        However, you will not be there all of the time to keep your daughter away from hazardous items. Your daughter may be sitting happily in your own back yard and a wasp stings her. Accidents DO happen and you need to ease off a bit. From what you told us your ex is a very young mother. You will find lots to fault her with in the future. You are setting yourself up for not having any custodial visitations whatsoever if this young mother and her family perceive you to be threatening in any way.
        If a judge would tell me that my own child must be separated from me because I politely pointed out a toxic hazard at ground level when she is crawling around it, then heaven help us all.

        If a parent pointing out a toxic hazard is seen as a threat and people like you support that perception, then heaven help us all.

        You have had the experience of having another child. The mother of your young daughter has no experience. Taking a "helping" approach will probably be much more effective in the long term. Encouragement goes a long way.
        I asked her to remove the cigarette butts from ground level. The woman is 29 years old. Any parent who doesn't get that and responds with a fuck off and a death threat shouldn't be in charge of those children. I am truly amazed at your responses.

        EDIT: PS: I am not a "visitor". I am her father.

        Further Edit: The woman who left the cigarette butts is the grandmother, 58 years old.

        Comment


        • #34
          Hi - as much as I understand your frustration, you need to stay on their good side for now. As you just experienced, they have quite some power to make your life as a father miserable. You don't know what dangers lurk inside the house. I would concentrate on pick up/drop off in the most NEUTRAL manner possible, swallow all you have to say, and know YOU will be doing the right thing in YOUR household. Again, I disagree with the ashtray, but I'd love access to my kid MORE. It's all a power game right now until it's permanent. And her parents may be VERY unhappy at having their child + taking care of a grandchild back in their house during their "quiet" years... The anger they have may be waiting to find an outlet = you. Be careful...

          Comment


          • #35
            Torontonian - solid, wise advice, thank you. Thanks for putting it in clear terms and not trying to make me out to be the bad guy. Everyone just needs a little support and encouragement sometimes.

            What I intend to do is email confirmation that I am coming, and ask if she'd prefer to meet me on the sidewalk or street in front of her house, or a little way down the street, if that's acceptable to her. Bite my tongue if she responds caustically or arrogantly. It hurts badly to hear people say I am not welcome when my daughter is there looking at me.

            It's hard for me because the responses are so volatile. When she is so sweet on Wednesday and being a maniac on Thursday, I feel frustrated because I am like, "can't you PLEASE just be consistent for the sake of the kids?"

            Good points from you and the other poster re: having empathy for what she must be going through with her own parents. For sure it's not all peaches and cream up in there given the circumstances and everyone's personalities, what we know about them.

            Anyway, enough venting from me. I promise to keep everyone posted, if you are interested.

            Comment


            • #36
              No one is saying you have no right to be concerned, but you have no right to tell her how to parent... just because baby may play in that area, doesn't mean they let her anywhere near the ash tray... taking a picture and sending it to them is one thing, including the lawyer? That is high conflict... not a damn thing the lawyer can do, and really not a damn thing you can do...

              If you want to follow the agreement to a T, I suggest you expect it to go both ways... you can't ask for extra time, which is outside the agreement and then throw the agreement back in her face about pick up and drop offs. You are creating more drama for yourself. I am sure there are hazards in your house as well, that you most likely do not pay attention to because you don't feel they are that dangerous... but maybe to her or someone else they are.

              Heck, this sounds like my bf's ex who tried to say that when we had the children we had to board our dogs because she felt they were unsafe... at the time I owned Bernese Mountain dogs... she made such a fuss over it, I finally provided her lawyer with a copy of their Canine Good Citizen... the fact that my dogs went into nursing homes and hospitals, seemed to be enough to get her off of that... did the dogs sometimes knock the kids over, yes they did... but it was when the kids were engaged in playing with them. She felt my dogs were a threat to the kids, but the kids were not permitted (and still are not) to play with the dogs unless myself or another adult is present.

              You trusted this lady enough to have a child with her, allow her to parent her way

              Comment


              • #37
                You really do "go off" quite often SD - like seriously. Call the RCMP about Grandma's cigarette butts and tell them about your (what is it) 2nd death threat. I'm sure they will come a running. You did not hear ONE single word "arabian" was saying to you. You can be completely unreasonable and that's what's going to keep your sh*t-show and drama going - whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.

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                • #38
                  BF; well said but I am always a bit confused by this line, and variations of it (by other posters) "You trusted this lady enough to have a child with her, allow her to parent her way."

                  I try and use that to understand my situation and all I come up with is that I must have been out of my mind at the time, to have stayed with him at all. It took a little while to see his true colours, and let me tell you - he hasn't become more normal or pleasant, over the years.

                  Suffice it to say - mine (like many others) was not a "planned" pregnancy. I'm over the moon that I have a son - and a terrific one at that, but what I wouldn't do if it were possible to have chosen a partner (to have a child with) more carefully.
                  Read: it would not have been him. It wasn't long after having my son, that I made very sure that the father and I would not be having a second one, together.

                  Coulda, shoulda, woulda - I've got a few of those. I likely would have had a second child (w/someone else) if I'd left my ex sooner. That ship has sailed. No more babies for this momma A little something that will always sadden me upon reflection.

                  Children are so precious and deserve to have two loving parents in their life, whether the parents are together, or not. It's a shame there are people out there who take years to realize that, or worse - never do.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Berner, I am glad you admitted you correspond with the other side's lawyer on matters that both parents consider important. I'm representing myself, she has counsel.

                    I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you about the cigarette butts left on the floor. That is not the same thing as having pets. If the pets were obviously dangerous - yes. Ashtrays should never be left on the floor when babies are crawling around. Period. When the mother has pointed at popcorn kernels on the floor or anything she thinks could be an improvement on safety, I say thank you and I do what she asks, whenever that is reasonable. Telling me to fuck off in front of my child and not removing the hazard is never going to be an acceptable response to me as a parent. I find it shocking you would actually not say anything if you saw something like that in your own toddler's play area, or you would accept a loud "fuck off" as a response to that. I am not the bad guy here.

                    I agree with what you say about being flexible on the terms of the order. Thanks for that advice. It is easier to accept the advice when you are not being so unreasonable, attacking me repeatedly for my very justified concern over a hazard.

                    Hadenough - death threats are never acceptable, not to mention my child was with me when it was uttered. I am not the bad guy. No one reading this should think they should cower or not call the police when a death threat is made in front of their children. That is extremely bad advice and sets a terrible example for children.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                      BF; well said but I am always a bit confused by this line, and variations of it (by other posters) "You trusted this lady enough to have a child with her, allow her to parent her way."

                      I try and use that to understand my situation and all I come up with is that I must have been out of my mind at the time, to have stayed with him at all. It took a little while to see his true colours, and let me tell you - he hasn't become more normal or pleasant, over the years.
                      I can totally understand that. I saw things about her after the birth of my daughter that weren't apparent before. Even still, I don't care if she is mother theresa and the best girlfriend to ever walk the face of the earth. I intend to communicate my concerns about parenting whenever it is appropriate to do so. I ALWAYS welcome her feedback on things like car seats, hazards in my home, or whatever.

                      I do not accept threats or unilateral decisions that the order says we need to make jointly. I am finding ways to be more flexible in that respect and reduce conflict. That much of the advice to me here is good and valid.

                      Suffice it to say - mine (like many others) was not a "planned" pregnancy. I'm over the moon that I have a son - and a terrific one at that, but what I wouldn't do if it were possible to have chosen a partner (to have a child with) more carefully.
                      Read: it would not have been him. It wasn't long after having my son, that I made very sure that the father and I would not be having a second one, together.

                      Coulda, shoulda, woulda - I've got a few of those. I likely would have had a second child (w/someone else) if I'd left my ex sooner. That ship has sailed. No more babies for this momma A little something that will always sadden me upon reflection.

                      Children are so precious and deserve to have two loving parents in their life, whether the parents are together, or not. It's a shame there are people out there who take years to realize that, or worse - never do.
                      I 100% agree with you. I will respectfully ask you one more time, stop attacking me as if I am the bad guy. I am interested in advice that helps me reduce conflict. If I see something dangerous on the floor where my baby plays, telling me to keep my mouth shut is never going to fly. I admit I could have avoided including her lawyer on the first email.

                      But I addressed it to the mother and the grandmother, as I would any smoker who left butts where my daughter played and told me to fuck off when I raised the issue. I would encourage any parent to do the same, whether the hazard is with the other parent, a sibling, a day care worker, or any other situation that the parent notices a hazard. Advising people to keep their mouth shut is plain nuts. That needs to be said.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        No one said death threats were acceptable. Neither is "a loud fuck off" in front of the child. Ok, so take a pic of the butts and the random popcorn kernel and show the judge that - let us all know how that goes over for you.

                        You cannot police everything. If you were really fearful of your life - would you be showing up at their front door? I sure wouldn't.

                        I said it before: get an audio recorder. Aside from that it doesn't sound as though the cops have much interest thus far in the threats you say have been made.

                        It's grandma's house and whether you agree or not: she can keep her ashtray where she chooses. These are not offences under the Criminal Code.

                        *no one is "attacking" you. And yes, hindsight is 20/20. Moving forward, you want more access. You know it's highly unlikely you'll get custody so concentrate on the access. Smooth, flowing, consistent Access. Good Luck.
                        Last edited by hadenough; 05-20-2012, 09:01 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                          You really do "go off" quite often SD - like seriously. Call the RCMP about Grandma's cigarette butts and tell them about your (what is it) 2nd death threat. I'm sure they will come a running. You did not hear ONE single word "arabian" was saying to you. You can be completely unreasonable and that's what's going to keep your sh*t-show and drama going - whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.
                          I NEVER called the RCMP about the cigarette butts, nor did I ever once say that I did that. I ask you to retract that comment. I am hopeful you misread something and aren't intentionally lying.

                          Advising folks to not inform the police when you get a death threat is horrible advice, hadenough. That needs to be said.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                            No one said death threats were acceptable. Neither is "a loud fuck off" in front of the child. Ok, so take a pic of the butts and the random popcorn kernel and show the judge that - let us all know how that goes over for you.
                            I am concerned with my child's well being, not the judge's opinion so much.

                            Popcorn kernel was at my home. She pointed it out to me and I was grateful for that being brought to my attention. you are deliberately misreading what I said.

                            You cannot police everything. If you were really fearful of your life - would you be showing up at their front door? I sure wouldn't.
                            You aren't me and I am not you. I already stated the specific legal advice I got on this point. You are advising me to go against my own lawyer's advice that unless I got her on tape, I could not change the pick up and drop off location. If I did not comply with the order, I could lose access. Yes, I am willing to enter danger if it is the only way I can see my child. It's disappointing to hear you wouldn't.

                            I said it before: get an audio recorder. Aside from that it doesn't sound as though the cops have much interest thus far in the threats you say have been made.
                            I said it before, I have an audio recorder. I have said it before, it was not rolling during the two incidents, which were at least 7 months apart. I said it before, the police talked to her but wouldn't file charges without a recording or her admission about what happened. Please stop contradicting points I have plainly stated already.

                            It's grandma's house and whether you agree or not: she can keep her ashtray where she chooses. These are not offences under the Criminal Code.
                            And it is the access point and it is my daughter and I have a right to raise concerns about hazards on the floor where my daughter plays, wherever that may be. You are not going to convince any knowing parent I am a bad guy for saying I don't accept that where my daughter is playing. Arguably I can be more patient or strategically more effective or act in wiser ways to reduce conflict. Telling a parent to keep their mouth shut about a hazard in the baby's play area is ridiculous and no one should ever listen to that advice, whether or not they are in litigation.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Quote "I am concerned with my child's well being, not the judge's opinion so much. "

                              The first part of that sentence? Great. I am clapping.
                              The second part: you are in a contentious situation and guess what? She has the upper hand - you should be VERY concerned about the Judge's opinion b/c you are in Court now and THAT JUDGE will be making the decisions for you, if you keep this thing going.

                              ^ THAT is good advice. And btw: In no way do I condone threats of harm or death. I'm not retracting anything - you misread a remark I made that yes, was sarcastic. I myself have had to deal with domestic violence issues and verbal abuse. Furthermore, I've read about 50 books on the topic. I could probably write one. In fact, I just might.

                              I am not attacking you: I'd like to see your story end with lots of access, a civil relationship w/ex, 2 healthy, happy girls, lots of fun memories. There: are you convinced I'm not attacking you now?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                                Quote "I am concerned with my child's well being, not the judge's opinion so much. "

                                The first part of that sentence? Great. I am clapping.
                                The second part: you are in a contentious situation and guess what? She has the upper hand - you should be VERY concerned about the Judge's opinion b/c you are in Court now and THAT JUDGE will be making the decisions for you, if you keep this thing going.

                                ^ THAT is good advice. And btw: In no way do I condone threats of harm or death. I'm not retracting anything - you misread a remark I made that yes, was sarcastic. I myself have had to deal with domestic violence issues and verbal abuse. Furthermore, I've read about 50 books on the topic. I could probably write one. In fact, I just might.

                                I am not attacking you: I'd like to see your story end with lots of access, a civil relationship w/ex, 2 healthy, happy girls, lots of fun memories. There: are you convinced I'm not attacking you now?
                                Thank you. Let me clarify... I did not make the complaint about the cigarette butts in hopes of impressing a judge. That was not the reason I did it. I am not trying to get her into trouble, I am trying to get her to take the damn filth off the floor. Maybe that's impossible but I am still going to try. How hard is it to pick the tray off the floor and put it on a table? Super easy.

                                I think this is ordinary conflict between high conflict parents. I don't think a judge would decide custody in my favour because of that. If there was a pattern of this, or an incident of - heaven forbid - baby needing medical attention because of it, then it would become a real problem for her. Put the damn ashtray where adults can reach it, not babies.

                                It's inconceivable that a judge would award her sole custody or deprive me of access because I politely pointed out butts on the floor, was told to fuck off, then sent another POLITE email with a photograph, requesting it be removed from the play area. I can't fathom a judge would make a baby fatherless, even if he were to agree I should just keep my mouth shut and be on my way.

                                Comment

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