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Just found out she went to the States, WITH THE KIDS!!!!

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  • Just found out she went to the States, WITH THE KIDS!!!!

    Ok, we don't have a custody agreement, nor do we have a visitation agreement (although we're working on one right now), and I'm the ncp who sees his children whenever the cp feels like it.

    I just found out that she took our kids on a business trip to the States for 4-5 days. I was obviously NOT made aware of this trip prior to it, nor was I asked if I had any concerns. She has my phone number, my address, my email address, etc, etc, so she has no reason not to contact me.

    From my understanding, both parents need to sign off on the passports, right? Also, according to other posts here, something called a "Travel Consent form" needs to be filled out, again by both parents. Obviously, I never signed off on any of these documents.

    She did NOT go to court to circumvent my signing authority, soooooooo, HOW THE HELL DID SHE DO THIS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    Is this legal?

  • #2
    Document, document, document, get your ass in court and request full legal custody (decision making) based on lack of co-operation and lack of communication from the other parent. Document the lack of regular, scheduled access for yourself and argue that the other parent should not be in control as they are not acting in the best interests of the children by not ensuring regular access with both parents (her and you). Sub-argument that if sole legal custody to you is not possible, you seek joint custody as well as a court ordered access schedule to insure that the children have both parents involved in their lives.

    If you are going for some version of every other weekend access, seek access to begin with a pickup at the school/camp/daycare on Friday, with a drop off at school/camp/daycare Monday morning, which means you are not reliant in any way on the other parent, and allows you to meet teachers, etc. and stay involved with the children's schooling and activities.

    If you haven't filed a court action yet, do so now. For the time being you can do so on the cheap, write it up yourself, file it and serve her. We will help you word things properly. Generally this will light a fire under the other party in terms of settling. Once you have your first case conference, you can request court ordered mediation, and you can also file motions for temporary orders. The first part of the process doesn't have to cost a lot of money if you self rep or if you use a lawyer and stay on top of what they are doing with your file. (Don't let the lawyer screw around with endless letters back and forth. Your ex has crossed the line, if it were me I would start a court action.)

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    • #3
      But I still can't get my head around as to how she managed to take the kids out of the country without me signing any documents! Am I missing something? Is there a way to do this that I'm not aware of? I'm already disillusioned enough with the family law system, this is finally the last straw!

      From what I understand, she even flew out of a major international airport!!!!

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      • #4
        I live in a border town and cross often into the US with my girls.... I've never been asked about them..... even when I'm crossing the border with my boyfriend, there has never been any questions asked....

        .....though I carry a letter he wrote in my wallet should there be any questions. It is just a general letter as we cross often (1-2 times a month)....

        In the past when I've brought ex's daughters (my stepdaughters) through the US, there was only one question asked for all the times we crossed - guard asked me what the relation was, I responded family, and that was that....

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        • #5
          But I still can't get my head around as to how she managed to take the kids out of the country without me signing any documents! Am I missing something? Is there a way to do this that I'm not aware of? I'm already disillusioned enough with the family law system, this is finally the last straw!

          From what I understand, she even flew out of a major international airport!!!!
          She's their mother...so its not abnormal that she can cross the border.

          Both my ex and I cross the Canada/US border regularly with our daughter. Unless you call immigration and raise a flag, I don't see any reason for them to stop your ex from travelling with her/your children. There's nothing unusual about that.

          I do agree that leaving for 4-5 days without informing you was rather inconsiderate on her part, however, you have no access agreement and you're letting her be the gatekeeper for access to your kids....so you're making your own bed, in my opinion.

          My confusion in these cases is always how the heck do you end up letting the other parent dictate your access to your kids? I would have never tolerated that at all. Prior to us having an arrangement...if my ex had told me that I couldn't have the kids...I would have completely ignored him and picked them up from school or daycare or whatever. I typed up a quick schedule, sent it to him and kept to it. I would have never put up with him telling me when I could be a parent. The law is very clear here...you have assumed joint access to your children...period...no matter what she says.

          The idea that someone sits around and waits for the other parent to say its ok to see your kids with assumed 50/50 access is just bizarre to me. Its no wonder that she's under the false assumption that she controls the kids...when you've let her do it. That's not the court system's fault..that's your fault.

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          • #6
            Thank you to the last two people who posted for being completely useless....

            If you're crossing a border, you need a passport. If you don't have one, they won't let you cross. If you travel across a border, you need to get consent from the other parent.

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            • #7
              Clearly this isn't the case, as you've just experienced. You have nothing in place that says she CAN'T travel across the border with the kids. If you want to avoid this from happeneing, take the advice of the other posters, get your ducks in a row and hammer out an agreement.

              Seems that advice isn't what you're looking for, rather someone to share your anger and outrage at the situation. If you're *letting* it happen then don't be surprised when others aren't sympathetic.

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              • #8
                You're entirely wrong actually. Kids do not need passports for crossing the US border.

                U.S. and Canadian citizens ages 15 or younger with parental consent will be allowed to cross the borders at land and sea entry points with certified copies of their birth certificates rather than passports
                Do Children Need a Passport? Passport Requirements for Children at the U.S. / Canada Border

                She doesn't even need a custody/access order because you have no agreement in place. She has assumed 50/50 custody.

                By the way: I worked in the US for 15 years. I personally crossed every workday and travelled there at least once or twice a week with kids...still do....and I have NEVER been asked even once from a note from my ex for my kids. They also have never required passports...I don't even bring them.

                Although it would be prudent on her side to have a letter in case they question her about her pending divorce, its not at all necessary. It also has nothing to do with the diligence of Canadian/US Immigration or the Family Court.

                What IS relevant is the fact that you haven't made an effort to see your kids in the 4-5 days that she took off with them. What IS relevant is that you haven't used your assumed parental rights and are letting her be a gatekeeper for your kids. What IS relevant is that you are in here whining and projecting blame rather than taking action and responsibility as a father.

                Send her a polite email...don't not ASK...TELL her when you'll be picking the kids up on a weekly basis...quote the part of the Family Law act regarding assumed 50/50 custody...send the same email every single week....save every email. Start documenting your parenting time, keep receipts, ticket stubs, etc. Document clearly every one of her non-compliances...GO TO COURT AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR MESS. You are responsible for being a father...she's not responsible to make you one. Its amazing to me that guys like you will come in here whining about this crap and then wonder why you end up as an EOW dad.

                You want advice? You just got it. Now quit whining and grow up. You're not a victim of your ex...you're a victim of your own complacency.
                Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 07-12-2012, 02:01 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heart-broken dad View Post
                  Thank you to the last two people who posted for being completely useless....

                  If you're crossing a border, you need a passport. If you don't have one, they won't let you cross. If you travel across a border, you need to get consent from the other parent.
                  How about you do a little homework before making such a WRONG statement!!
                  PH and I are talking from direct, real life experience, and you have the NERVE to call us useless?!?!?!

                  Great, yet another a$$hat!!

                  We drive across the border, my kids do NOT need to be on my passport, or have their own at their ages. Hell, even my teenage stepdaughters do not require a passport because they cross on their Native Status Cards...

                  BUT...

                  If we were flying from a Canadian Airport to an American, the rules are a bit different...

                  The Canadian and American Border Agency websites both say that you need a consent letter from the other parent - but I can tell you (from my own numerous experiences) the actual guards in the booth have never once asked about the children in my car!!
                  Last edited by cbarker78; 07-12-2012, 02:12 PM.

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                  • #10
                    CBarker:

                    You have to understand how many people come into this forum looking to get sympathy while they project blame away from their own actions.

                    Both men and women do it...but I've notice a common thread of men who let the mother of their children dictate their initial separation access, end up with EOW agreements in court because she establishes a firm status quo and then come in here to endlessly whine about how they got shafted and how Family Court favors women.

                    This is a prime example of that.

                    After my initial separation, if my ex had taken my kids for 4-5 days, I wouldn't have "found out about it later." I wouldn't have tolerated any of that nonsense. If he had tried to block access to our children...I would have picked them up at school myself...or followed him to wherever he was and picked them up. I had a very controlling ex...when he tried to modify the plan...I simply said no. I didn't ask permission.

                    A lot of divorce is about changing your mindset about parenting. Neither the mother nor the father has any MORE rights to the children than the other parent until there's a defined access agreement in place. And due to status quo rules...you either use it or lose it. If you lose it because you don't exercise your rights...don't whine about it later, its your fault.

                    I don't not understand the annoying victim mentality of people like this OP. If you want sympathy for having a bad ex...go buy a Hallmark card...if you want constructive advice about what YOU should be doing to take care of your situation...then ask in this forum. We're not here to whine with idiots while they bash their ex who are actually wayyyyy smarter than they are.
                    Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 07-12-2012, 02:31 PM.

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                    • #11
                      yeah, I've seen that a lot too PH.... and maybe it's partially because my stbx and I are being mature civil adults, I have a hard time figuring out why other adults with much more life experience can act less mature than my almost 7 y/o.... (LOL!!!) I was up late reading last night, and early morning meetings are making it a loooong day..... LOL ;-)
                      Last edited by cbarker78; 07-12-2012, 02:32 PM. Reason: ....and no it was not 50 Shades that kept me up!! ;-)

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                      • #12
                        I'm not sure what the big deal is. It was a business trip, for less than a week.

                        Do you have any reason to suspect that she intends to abscond with the children? Can she pick up completely, move to the States, don a new identity, get a job and support the children? Does she have a relationship down there that she is pursuing? if the answer is no to the above, then it was simply a pleasure trip. No harm done.

                        Yes, it would have been nice if she had advised you, but without an agreement in place, not necessary.
                        Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

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                        • #13
                          Thank you everyone. Really, thank you for showing that I really am a horrible person and father and that there's really only one option left for me.

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                          • #14
                            Thank you everyone. Really, thank you for showing that I really am a horrible person and father and that there's really only one option left for me.
                            My eyes just rolled so far back in my head that I fell off my chair.

                            You took constructive criticism about how to take care of what your ex is doing this way? Really? Seriously? Fo sho?

                            Holy crapcrackers, I'm starting to understand why your ex just doesn't even bother to deal with you. You will not stand up and take responsibility like a normal parent...its sooooo much easier to whine and feel sorry for yourself.

                            Gee, let me guess what the one option is...

                            (plays the death dirge on the violin while sobbing like a baby)
                            Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 07-12-2012, 03:38 PM. Reason: Just CANNOT stand that whining victim mentality...I want to slap someone like that guy from South Park right now...slllappp

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Heart-broken dad View Post
                              Thank you everyone. Really, thank you for showing that I really am a horrible person and father and that there's really only one option left for me.
                              Maybe in the afterlife you will find that REALITY = WHAT YOU EXPECT. Good luck.

                              PS: I am NCP dad of a little girl under 5 (and we have different surnames), and we have repeatedly travelled to europe. Only ONCE was I asked for the consent letter from mom .... and ... punch line ... that was AFTER we had arrived back home in Canada. Obviously idiotic.

                              Mess has already told you what your course of action should be. Not really anything else to say about it.
                              Last edited by dinkyface; 07-12-2012, 04:06 PM.

                              Comment

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