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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 01-24-2009, 10:29 PM
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Default PAS, custodial parents and the courts

Here's an interesting story in the Toronto Star, that may give pause to the new deadbeats in family law, being custodial parents who deny access and alienate their children to the other parent.

TheStar.com | News | Mom loses custody for alienating dad

And here's the CanLii link:

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...canlii943.html

Charming.

Last edited by dadtotheend; 01-24-2009 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:02 AM
paris paris is offline
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Well, that was a long read. Kudos to the Dad for fighting so long for his daughters. And kudos to the judge for finally getting it right!

I hope he has a big support group. It could take a long time to undo the damage that's been done.
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:03 AM
feduptothehilt feduptothehilt is offline
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Hi I don't know the facts but please remember there is always another side of the coin.
I NEVER stopped access to my children's father but he deliberately uses the children as pawns including mild difficult to prove physical abuse, mental abuse and denying them medical treatment (he refuses to acknowledge my son is asthmatic) in the hope in makes me react which it does because he used all forms of abuse against me.
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:27 AM
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It is sad that it took so many years for this abuse to come to light. I should hope that this case law could put the 50/50 'custody' back on the table. Kudos to the father for sticking in there, but how many people have the cash to fight against PAS for 10-14 years? This should be a wake up call to all family law judges to be aware that the abuse can be sublte and cruel, not just over the top crazy, but still have the same destructive psychological effects for the kids! What kind of realtionships do these parents think their kids will have after they are grown? Isn't it the job, and in the 'best intrests of the child' to prepare our kids (bio or not) to be happy productive members of society? psychological abuse should be punishable the same as physcial abuse. this mother should be confined and get intense therapy in jail. (before I get backlash, read the caselaw and think of how it would be different if it was physcial harm coming to the kids instead of psychological and how the timeline for losing her kids cxwould be different)
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feduptothehilt View Post
Hi I don't know the facts but please remember there is always another side of the coin.
Read the judges decision that can be found in the second link I posted above. I don't think "...another side of the coin..." applies in this case. The other side of the coin had every opportunity to make itself heard.

This was a case about a parent who abused the authority she had as primary caregiver (she wasn't even the sole custodial parent) to serve her own needs. She further abused the children and the children's father, both physically and emotionally for 14 years during which she actively campaigned to destroy the children's relationship with their father. This happens with alarming frequency in our society.

The point of this story is that sole custodial parents carry a very large stick and some abuse that authority. At least feduptothehilt you presumably have that stick. If you think the father is abusing your children, then you have the power to act on it. BTW why didn't you deny access if you thought they were being harmed? I'm very sorry that you have suffered abuse from him, which shouldn't be ignored. Thankfully society has recognized the severity of this problem in recent years and decades.

But I started this thread to highlight the issues of PAS, denial of access and abuse of authority by custodial parents, which is a huge problem that has been ignored by the family law system and society. Hopefully this case will begin to address these terrible abuses of our children and the non-custodial parent.

Last edited by dadtotheend; 01-25-2009 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:34 AM
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Hi there,
My reply wasn't meant to offend you or make you defensive.The irony is we are in the same baot but on the opposite side. Trust me I wish I did have a stick to beat my hubby with but he would be the first to have me arrested! He is a wealthy academic who is very plausible and I applaude your tenacity to get the result you obviously passionately wanted for your children
BUT what i was trying to get across is that it can be abuse equally from the non custodial parent. It is easy to get embittered in hating all women (comment deadbeats) as it would be for me to hate all men. For our own sanity and that of a positive outlook that no tow cases or people are alike don't we owe it to our children to demonstrate their are more good than bad out thre (hopefully)
Soory if you think I am some Brit from across the waters but trust me my case is complicated and its nice to look at it from outside theconfinements of just as crazy a Family Law system that needs reform in this country too!!
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:55 AM
feduptothehilt feduptothehilt is offline
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I agree about psychological abuse and it can be very subtle.My ex decided in 2000 before my son was born he wanted out of the relationship as I now on reflection look back at movement of monies, lies I was told etc and mental abuse was stepped up over time then he turned violent.
But he worked on my nerves very very subtly in a completely calculated and controlled fashion and now he is working on the nerves of our children but because I react hysterically at times he is able to go undetected as the perpetrator.I had a full term stillbirth before my two and he tried to say I was deluded and over reactional)Especailly as in Britian as in America there is greater protection for the non resident parent.That's right but it can just as easily be abused as the other way around.
There should be more pyschological profiling done of families at the start especially as indeterminate amounts of money can be spent on legal fees and at court.
My ex is fairly wealthy, knows money would go to me and would rather give it to the tax man and the courts than see his children and me have a better life. That is abuse of Family law and wrong.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:59 AM
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Thank you for recognizing your comment about my custody difficulties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feduptothehilt View Post
BUT what i was trying to get across is that it can be abuse equally from the non custodial parent.
Point taken, but the custodial parent has the authority to deal with that abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feduptothehilt View Post
It is easy to get embittered in hating all women (comment deadbeats) as it would be for me to hate all men.
I have been careful not to get gender specific on this and in many other posts where I have used that term. I mention custodial parents, not custodial moms. Deadbeats are deadbeats, male or female. I will concede that the term deadbeat dads offends me, and has this has influenced me in using it in a non-gender specific way. If men can be deadbeats so can women, I think.

But please don't ever suggest that I hate all women.

I was raised in a progressive home absent chauvinism. My mom is well educated, extremely intelligent, has had several very interesting careers, very well read, and a constant source of counsel for me, especially in recent years during my divorce proceedings. My dad has been just as influential. They have been very positive influences in my life. I support and behave in ways that demonstrate my belief in gender equality.

So now that some more of my cards on the table, let's face it. Just as domestic violence is overwhelmingly perpretrated by men, PAS and denial of access is overwhelmingly perpretrated by women. Men have been called to task on domestic violence in a huge way by the criminal justice system. It's high time that custodial parents who commit this reprehensible abuse on their children, 80% of whom are women, face the consequences in the family law system.

Last edited by dadtotheend; 01-25-2009 at 09:06 AM.
  #9  
Old 01-25-2009, 09:18 AM
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[QUOTE=feduptothehilt;19698]I agree about psychological abuse and it can be very subtle.My ex decided in 2000 before my son was born he wanted out of the relationship as I now on reflection look back at movement of monies, lies I was told etc and mental abuse was stepped up over time then he turned violent.
But he worked on my nerves very very subtly in a completely calculated and controlled fashion and now he is working on the nerves of our children but because I react hysterically at times he is able to go undetected as the perpetrator.I had a full term stillbirth before my two and he tried to say I was deluded and over reactional)Especailly as in Britian as in America there is greater protection for the non resident parent.That's right but it can just as easily be abused as the other way around.
QUOTE]

It may just as easily be abused the other way around, but AGAIN, the custodial parent has far more authority to deal with the abuse on the children!!

Last edited by dadtotheend; 01-25-2009 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:55 AM
feduptothehilt feduptothehilt is offline
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You have a point BUT there lies the irony again.
The abuse left my confidence in tatters. The I relied on two friends to help me and they acted as mediators for contact and helped me get the finances due to me to fight and then ran up debts and stole a huge sum from me.
Talk about lightening striking twice! I felt so violated and stupid.
My husband loved it as he could then say i was not to be trusted with money.
Even this weekend he crushed by liltle boys ribs even though he protested and did the same to my daughter. they have started realising it is not normal horseplay and he dragged my son off a chair and ripped the Guiness Book of Records 2009 out of his hands as he wanted to bring it to show me.
The he turns up,unannounced and it unnerves me as he has abused me without witnesses countless times and got away with it.
I just panic and lash out e-mail wise to the professionals getting very emotive as my ex has done things like assault me while i was trying to get me liittle boy to A&E to be nebulised for an asthma attack and stood grinning outside on his mobile afterwards while i was on autopilot trying to follow instructions from a friend I rang in panic and then the emergency services took over. My ex's abuse has completely traumatised me and it is now affecting my children badly but I feel threatened by the court that I must let him see the children or face prison.
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