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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 06-17-2019, 09:28 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Default OCL report Disputed.

So this is not shocking...

3 page affidavit filed disputing OCL report..

What steps does ocl take now? Does anyone know?

Most of the dispute in my opinion is it going to fly...

They say the investigation was not even or fair.

Ocl spoke to my collaterals but not dadís.

My collaterals all new the children
Dad didnít provide proper collaterals. His dr.. never met the kids.. the kids dentist??... and there hockey coach.. (which he never asked or notified) an ENT dr for one of our sons. Again never met my ex and only one of our children once....
itís like my ex just sent the list of kids contacts I have provided him to the OCL for collaterals.
He then complains that what some of the collaterals say is here-say. And canít be backed up by fact? Is it the clinicians job to prove what a collateral says?? I didnít think so.

Also complained his mother wasnít interviewed... but he never asked for her to be..

Said his court documents were not reviewed...
his lawyer never provided them to the clinician.
My lawyer did send some of his pleadings to help out the clinician.
Clinician noted 2 extra phone calls with mom vs dad. Except clinician also reported in her report that dad was always extremely hard to get a hold of and didnít return phone calls. Lawyer had to be contacted for him to be told he needs to respond to OCLís requests. That was even brought up in the disclosure meeting how difficult my ex made the whole process

Also they didnít list exactly what they disagree with. They just said they point blank disagree with ALL recommendations and it says see pages... x y z.

They are asking for ďreportsĒ from the collaterals.. like the professionals that clinician spoke to.

I was under the impression she spoke to them all on the phone. So other than her notes.. not sure what could be provided.

Anyone else have experience with this??


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  #2  
Old 06-17-2019, 10:43 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Yeah- not shocking at all.

I just went through this. My ex disputed specific recommendations though.

He said the same thing about the investigation being done unevenly. He claimed the clinician didn't stay for more than 30 min for his in-home visit and never spoke with his sister and mum- he specifically said that that was because he told them to back off so she could see him interact with D2, and she would've known that if she made any attempt to speak with them. When she was at my house- she spoke with my mum for a long time because my parents were both there while I was prepping dinner for D2 as they usually help distract her while I'm cooking.

She did review everything he submitted though- including a report from his own family doctor- who's never met D2. I'm not even sure what the purpose of that was- other than to confirm he suffers from similar atopic dermatitis (severe eczema) as D2.

So maybe your clinician should have spoken or contacted his collaterals? And reviewed his pleadings? But I hope his lawyer knows how kangaroo court it looks to say that she never reviewed his pleadings when they never provided it in the first place.

My opinion is that the OCL does do some questionable things. But they are there not to be judges - they can rely on hearsay if they think it's valid. THey are there to take into account everything everyone has said and try to come up with a solution for the kid(s).


Oh- so the OCL is supposed to reply to the party filing the dispute and let them know if they are changing anything (and copy the other party) My lawyer tells me 95% of the time they never change the recommendations.
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2019, 10:44 AM
tunnelight tunnelight is offline
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I suspect the OCL report is in your favour.

I had similar issues with OCL.

Imbalance time of interviews between parties.
Interview with members from moms side of family but not from my side of the family.
Missed collaterals.
Failure to review and understand court documents - stating incorrect information about court orders in the report.
Bias.

While those issues match with your post, these were more of the minor stuff I disputed. The more major stuff was integration CAS and police records into her report although she only received them after the disclosure meeting. Failing to understand that by not recommending 50.50 that the child's relationship with the father would be diminished, etc.

They don't have to get in the bushes and explain everything in their dispute. IF the matter goes to trial, then they will reveal their best arguments.

OCL will take about 4 to 6 weeks or more and reply in the lines of : the clinician is experienced and in good standing and stands by their recommendations. We understand this is a hard time for the parents. Please remember these are just recommendations and can be disputed in court. blah blah blah.

I assume there will be a settlement conference where a judge will review OCL report, dispute, and parties position. In my case, the judge lost it on my ex for disparaging the child and agreed with my position that the OCL recommendations made no sense and time should be 50.50 in order to protect my relationship with the child.

Last edited by tunnelight; 06-17-2019 at 10:51 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2019, 10:50 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnelight View Post
While those issues match with your post, these were more of the minor stuff I disputed. The more major stuff was integration CAS and police records into her report although she only received them after the disclosure meeting. Failing to understand that by not recommending 50.50 that the child's relationship with the father would be diminished, etc.
would you have had the same position if the clinician had received them before the disclosure?

my ex made the same argument that the CAS report and screening shouldn't have been included in the report whereby he didn't get a chance to tell his side of the story.

and is the issue with the 50/50 recommendation that there was potential parental alienation happening?
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:02 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnelight View Post
I suspect the OCL report is in your favour.

I had similar issues with OCL.

Imbalance time of interviews between parties.
Interview with members from moms side of family but not from my side of the family.
Missed collaterals.
Failure to review and understand court documents - stating incorrect information about court orders in the report.
Bias.

While those issues match with your post, these were more of the minor stuff I disputed. The more major stuff was integration CAS and police records into her report although she only received them after the disclosure meeting. Failing to understand that by not recommending 50.50 that the child's relationship with the father would be diminished, etc.

They don't have to get in the bushes and explain everything in their dispute. IF the matter goes to trial, then they will reveal their best arguments.

OCL will take about 4 to 6 weeks or more and reply in the lines of : the clinician is experienced and in good standing and stands by their recommendations. We understand this is a hard time for the parents. Please remember these are just recommendations and can be disputed in court. blah blah blah.

I assume there will be a settlement conference where a judge will review OCL report, dispute, and parties position. In my case, the judge lost it on my ex for disparaging the child and agreed with my position that the OCL recommendations made no sense and time should be 50.50 in order to protect my relationship with the child.


Yes sounds very similar.. except we already had the SC with the judge who reviewed the OCL report and basically told my ex he has an uphill battle, against a 6 year status quo and with what the OCL revealed from professionals. He told the ex to stop with the mischief and get this settled. He also told him to stop messing with his income or it would be imputed. We got 4 orders for disclosure from the ex. And we go back to see same judge in September.

Oh yes and the dispute that my ex wasnít given a chance to answer to certain things.

I would say the difference between you and my ex is you are most likely a good dad and Try at every chance to be involved.
My ex has been given all the facts and information. All appointments. Any chance to participate in things and he never shows up for his kids. Yet claims he wants them half the time. After he agreed to the access schedule and custody 6 years ago. He also dropped the sole/ 50-50 claim in his last brief. He has now agreed to EOW but has still insisted on joint custody. The judge explained to him all major decisions are already in place and that joint is an uphill battle he will die on.

Yet here we are still fighting....


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  #6  
Old 06-17-2019, 11:03 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
would you have had the same position if the clinician had received them before the disclosure?



my ex made the same argument that the CAS report and screening shouldn't have been included in the report whereby he didn't get a chance to tell his side of the story.



and is the issue with the 50/50 recommendation that there was potential parental alienation happening?


Have you heard back from OCL yet about the dispute?


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  #7  
Old 06-17-2019, 11:13 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
Yeah- not shocking at all.



I just went through this. My ex disputed specific recommendations though.



He said the same thing about the investigation being done unevenly. He claimed the clinician didn't stay for more than 30 min for his in-home visit and never spoke with his sister and mum- he specifically said that that was because he told them to back off so she could see him interact with D2, and she would've known that if she made any attempt to speak with them. When she was at my house- she spoke with my mum for a long time because my parents were both there while I was prepping dinner for D2 as they usually help distract her while I'm cooking.



She did review everything he submitted though- including a report from his own family doctor- who's never met D2. I'm not even sure what the purpose of that was- other than to confirm he suffers from similar atopic dermatitis (severe eczema) as D2.



So maybe your clinician should have spoken or contacted his collaterals? And reviewed his pleadings? But I hope his lawyer knows how kangaroo court it looks to say that she never reviewed his pleadings when they never provided it in the first place.



My opinion is that the OCL does do some questionable things. But they are there not to be judges - they can rely on hearsay if they think it's valid. THey are there to take into account everything everyone has said and try to come up with a solution for the kid(s).





Oh- so the OCL is supposed to reply to the party filing the dispute and let them know if they are changing anything (and copy the other party) My lawyer tells me 95% of the time they never change the recommendations.


And really her recommendations still gave dad more time than what he has.... yet he is disagreeing.

Of course with anything that isnít so nice about him. Like not paying attention to his kids while being observed. Or using such moments as teachable lessons. Or not correcting a step kid when he says something rude to his own child. The gf had to jump in and do it.

They are almost calling his own kids liars. Saying what the kids said about him should have been disclosed and that he should have had a chance to explain?

Well there are things said about me that I didnít get a chance to explain either but whatever.

He says right to the clinician that he admits gf has been writing all the correspondence for him to me. But then when my partner commented on it. They asked where my partner for his information from. Lol

My partner was very nice and social with my ex. He knows his speaking ability which isnít much. So when I would get upset and share an email with him he knew damn well my ex couldnít not write like that.

Sadly the clinician pointed out she isnít the first professional to recommend therapy and parenting classes to my ex. And she did rely on professionals who met my ex who said this about him. So to me this is factual.

I donít know but I get. I guess they have to dispute the report if we will go to trial.


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  #8  
Old 06-17-2019, 11:18 AM
tunnelight tunnelight is offline
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what is the material change in circumstances the OCL is relying on to change the status quo?
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2019, 11:22 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
I donít know but I get. I guess they have to dispute the report if we will go to trial.


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Yeah- it's a strategic thing- you have to dispute the report now if you are going to challenge it at trial. The lawyers know nothing is going to change.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:37 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnelight View Post
what is the material change in circumstances the OCL is relying on to change the status quo?


Thatís just it. Ex wants status quo changed. Not me. Ocl recommends custody stay with mom. My ex or his lawyers have not brought up anything that proves there has been a material change. Which is exactly what the judge asked his lawyer? He said please tell him where the material change is??? No one could answer him.

His argument is that S7 have substantially increased over time since date or superstation. Judge said ďduh kids get older and cost more moneyĒ

Kids were 2 and 5 when we split. They are 7.5 and 11 now.

One needed tutoring. One needed therapy. For a period of time. Which had now ended. So yes. Periodically they cost more.


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