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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 04-03-2019, 03:31 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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FRO assumes you get a new order every year. Most people donít. The FCSG assume people follow the law. Most people donít. Judges think they do it right in orders and everyone will follow them. Most...well you get my point.

The problem with section 7 is that there is no way to actually make them happen even with the law. Why?

1. Not everyone will pay/sign up for benefits.
2. Not everyone agrees on what a s7 is.
3. There is no automatic way to enforce them.

My partners agreement says he will sign up for benefits if they are available (nothing about cost so he pays for them), that section 7 expenses will be agreed upon in advance (ex unilaterally decides), that receipts will be provided immediately (ex waits a year or more to send meaning they are not accepted by benefits provider), and the net cost will be split (she disagrees with taking tax deduction off) according to their incomes (the dreaded percentage).

His ex originally requested a set percentage for s7 including things that are not s7 and assuming an inflated cost for things. His lawyer said no.

Section 7 expenses wording is the most bullshit and difficult thing in any agreement. Unless you update yearly with a mtc on agreement, you cant do anything. If FRO could enforce this stuff, it wouldnít actually be needed. Since they have to enforce it, they should have their own judicial party who looks at the incomes and just rubber stamps it.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2019, 04:20 PM
Frostrated Frostrated is offline
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Thank you everyone! I don't go after a lot in the way of section 7 expenses because I know it's a pain, but $6400 is a lot of money and I already paid for one set. My lawyer didn't actually ask for a percentage, he asked for it to be tacked onto my my child support, but the judge ordered a lot more and included post-secondary tuition. He does not have benefits as far as I know. He likes to work contract and move around so I never know where he's at. I do have benefits and they'll cover $1600 of it. I guess I'll try the arrears method and show them how I calculated it and see. If not, I'll have my lawyer file a motion.

I'm just annoyed because FRO is so inconsistent. One case worker will file a bunch of action against him, and another one will lecture me that all they can do it garnish half his pay, even when I tell them that he double invoices them.

I appreciate all the suggestions!
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2019, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
What SHOULD an order say regarding section 7 expenses?


For example: Right now- in the offer we're drafting- my lawyer lists exactly what section 7 is: pre-school tuition, before and afterschool care, medicated creams not covered by insurance and two activities- with each parent choosing one. BUT the costs are listed as a percentage. What should it say instead?

Offhand, if you are doing a S7 order on consent, then percentages should be fine, just recognize that they will not be enforced by FRO.

If you suspect that you will be using FRO to collect S7 expenses, then try to estimate the amount per year, and ask for a specific amount every month. For example, if historically the yearly contribution of your ex should have been about $3000, then ask for an S7 amount of $200 per month. You get a bit less than you should, but you save yourself a massive headache. Totally worth it.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2019, 06:56 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Default Section 7s as a percentage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Offhand, if you are doing a S7 order on consent, then percentages should be fine, just recognize that they will not be enforced by FRO.



If you suspect that you will be using FRO to collect S7 expenses, then try to estimate the amount per year, and ask for a specific amount every month. For example, if historically the yearly contribution of your ex should have been about $3000, then ask for an S7 amount of $200 per month. You get a bit less than you should, but you save yourself a massive headache. Totally worth it.


So I will need FRO to collect the S7ís for sure. Ex hasnít paid a dime for the last year or any this year hence why we are in court.

This way means if the child gets older and braces are needed or therapy or something is needed it wonít be covered right?

Itís weird as some people say fro has enforced the percentages but others it hasnít. So frustrating.

Is it better to have the clause ďpayor should pay within 30 days of receipt submitted to these xxx agreed upon expensesĒ Then If they donít pay from that order you file contempt?


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  #15  
Old 04-11-2019, 12:32 PM
Lemongirl Lemongirl is offline
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Iíve been with FRO for a number of years and Iíve never had an issue with claiming S7 expenses. My order is clear what the % is with no reference to dollar amount. I print the receipt that shows what it is and total amount paid, hand write the calculation out on the receipt, attach it to the statement of arrears, then get it commissioned and send through One Key online to Fro. With childcare he is to pay me direct within 30 days of me notifying him of his portion due. Heís currently overdue a number of months so I called FRO amd they told me to send the receipts in with a statement of arrears form and copies of the emails I sent him each time I emailed him a receipt as proof that itís overdue. They said they will collect on my behalf since he failed to abide by the court order in paying me direct.
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  #16  
Old 04-11-2019, 12:48 PM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Awesome!! Thanks for this information!!


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  #17  
Old 04-11-2019, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemongirl View Post
With childcare he is to pay me direct within 30 days of me notifying him of his portion due.
How will they know your net childcare costs? If they collect based upon the gross amounts you could potentially make a profit here.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
Is it better to have the clause ďpayor should pay within 30 days of receipt submitted to these xxx agreed upon expensesĒ Then If they donít pay from that order you file contempt?
I think so, lemongirl would disagree. It appears that it might be hard to tell.

Assuming a fully hostile relationship, I would recommend going for the fixed monthly amount with a reckoning at the end of the year (make sure you get more than anticipated so the reckoning helps the ex).

Assuming a antagonistic but mostly compliant relationship, I would want a fixed percentage, and then hope for compliance. I would build up a few thousand in unpaid expenses before going to court, and treating this like a hostile relationship

The best of course would be to get a clueless FRO caseworker who somehow provides enforcement on gross values. That might be case dependent though.
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  #19  
Old 04-11-2019, 03:31 PM
Lemongirl Lemongirl is offline
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I would prefer a flat $ amount to be ordered instead of a % and reconcile at the end of the year but the judge ordered it to be a specific percentage. I also forgot to mention that in my order his proportionate share of childcare is reduced by another 15% once his $ share is calculated as I receive the tax benefit, which makes sense. For example if I sent childcare receipts to FRO for childcare totalling $1000, on the receipt I write 1000 x 49% = $490 Less 15% = $426.50. Then on the statement of arrears form I only put $426.50 as owing, not the total amount. I do the math for them and make it super easy to understand. They receive the paperwork, check the math against the court order to verify it then process.
In response to how I would make a profit on childcare I need clarification as I canít see how that could work. If he doesnít pay me directly i then send to FRO. He will receive notification from them including a copy of what I submitted. If he actually paid it to me he can dispute the claim with FRO by sending them proof of payment that he actually paid direct to me. Is that what you mean? Sorry, I just donít understand.
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