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  • #31
    It has nothing to do with breastfeeding or best interest of kido. Just simple way of controlling and use whatever she can... Being there done that (even with a bottle same old same old)... Tired of such people. Disgusting.

    WD

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      Yes, it's always all about what Tayken said.
      What did I say now?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
        Agreed, it's about control. Mom is using breastfeeding as a means to control and prevent dad from being an equal parent. Later, it will be that baby won't take a bottle, then later, it eill be that baby doesn't want to go with dad, because dad wasn't around so baby isn't comfortable with him.

        It's not a breastfeeding issue at all, there are other options.
        I suspect it is control with possibly an extreme position built on "black and white" thinking by the position of breastfeeding is absolutely necessary.

        What about a child that is born with a cleft pallet and unable to feed directly from the breast? Parents in this situation will pump or use assisting devices etc...

        The major advantage of breastfeeding is that formula just can’t provide the antibodies a mother’s milk can. But, this all ends at around two months, the baby’s immune system picks up and it’s far less of a concern.

        Here is an excellent article on how both parents can equally share in a feeding cycle. Even has a breakdown of the pumping cycle etc. Covers many of the topics canvased in this thread.

        EQUALLY SHARED PARENTING AND BREASTFEEDING? IS THAT POSSIBLE?

        PhD in Parenting - PhD in Parenting - Equally Shared Parenting and Breastfeeding? Is ThatPossible?

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          Sure, breastfeeding is best, but that doesn't mean the alternatives are crap.
          My point as well.

          There are many people who struggle to achieve "perfection" in what they do in every day life. They expect this "perfection" from others that they interact with every day in life. They constantly seek out small points of argument in an attempt to "be perfect" and expect "perfection".

          In a perfect world breastfeeding this child would be the only option. I note that in that perfect world too the parents be together in an "in-tact family". Such is not the case and the level of "perfection" moves the parents to the next best options... Options that will not trigger any negative health outcome for the child in consideration to the fact that the family is now split in two halves.

          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          It shouldn't trump absolutely everything. The father's time with the child is just as important. And since the family is separated, his time with the child will include feedings.
          Breastfeeding isn't a medical necessity. To argue it as a "medical necessity" in the civil court requires the justice to consider the "evidence" on the balance of probabilities. Will bottle feeding pumped milk or even formula not be in the "best interests" of the child? PROBABLY NOT.

          Again, the court will have to lay out the facts against the "best interests" test. The first step to the test is "love and affection". To isolate the child from the other parent's ability to provide "love an affection" in my opinion (tayke it or leave it) is that the impact on the child of NOT having a close relationship with the father will have more of a negative impact than not being breastfed ever could.

          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          The mother says the baby won't take a bottle? Not from her I bet, with the preferred alternative right there. But I'm sure he would from the father, if the father is patient, because the baby is hungry and the breasts are unavailable.
          Excellent point. Proximity to mothers is often the challenge parents face when transitioning from breast to bottle. Mom shouldn't be in the room and telling dad how to bottle feed. It is best done in the absence of mom as there are a number of triggering elements that can and will make it harder to achieve.

          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          The mother says she doesn't produce enough breastmilk to pump extra. Guess what! The baby can get formula the first weekend with dad, and she can pump while the baby is absent and freeze it for the next dad weekend. One single weekend of formula is irrelevant to the baby's health.
          You are correct. It is about setting up the cycle. To create a supply cycle you often have to use an alternative (formula) to increase supply. There are many professionals available to assist the mother and the techniques are quite commonly known to do this.

          After 2 months, the antibodies that are not found in formula are absent from breast milk. Formula has advanced significantly and is incredibly nutritionally close to breast milk these days. Not that I am proposing one over the other but, the argument on the balance of probabilities that "breast milk is necessary" starts to weaken on the balance of probabilities.

          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          The doctor said exclusively breastfeed. Was there a health reason given? Or did the doctor simply not know that the father had weekend custody? The father could consult a doctor or nurse for guidance on how to feed the baby during his weekend.
          What if the mother develops a transferable infection and has to stop breast feeding. This happens quite often. What then does the doctor recommend? As you pointed out for a doctor's recommendation to be valid one has to consider the variables in the subjective observations provided by the patient. This is known to all clinicians as a basic principal of SOAP noting... Even to "social workers"...

          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          And lastly, the mother's determination to go to jail if necessary, rather than hand the child to the father says so much. During that time, guess what, someone else would be bottle feeding her child! It's not about breastfeeding at all, it's about finding every excuse possible not to let the father have the child.
          I agree. The statement of rather going to jail than allowing the other parent to be with the child is an odd one. Especially when you unfold the "emotional reasoning" and apply logic such as you have Rioe. This article itself is excellent evidence to be used in a future motion/trial for the father and to raise exactly what you have observed as well.

          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          Lastly, the article probably only got the go-ahead because breastfeeding is a hot topic, and it gave them an excuse to display a half-naked woman. Hasn't this woman ever heard of nursing tops?
          I think the go-ahead came from the mother. What parent would want their family situation in the news like this? I can't find a CanLII posting with similar information in SK... So, someone had to tip off the reporter... Highly doubtful the father would as the article is very biased against his position... Reads similar to the last article shared with the site about parental alienation...

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

          Comment


          • #35
            The parents have 2 children, one being two years old.

            She can only produce enough milk for the infant.

            She refuses to hand over both children.

            Those facts indicate what she is really doing. At least in my opinion.

            Comment


            • #36
              Something to consider:

              Breastfeeding vs. Formula Feeding

              Although experts believe breast milk is the best nutritional choice for infants, breastfeeding may not be possible for all women. For many women, the decision to breastfeed or formula feed is based on their comfort level, lifestyle, and specific medical considerations that they might have.
              Benefits of bottle feeding with formula:

              Flexibility. Once the bottles are made, a formula-feeding mother can leave her baby with a partner or caregiver and know that her little one's feedings are taken care of. There's no need to pump or to schedule work or other obligations and activities around the baby's feeding schedule. And formula-feeding moms don't need to find a private place to nurse in public. However, if mom is out and about with baby, she will need to bring supplies for making bottles.
              To simplify my position. Separation and divorce is a lifestyle change that doesn't easily support the principals of "maximum contact" as expected under the Divorce Act in relation to the "best interests" requirements of this Act. A justice faced with a "breastfeeding" argument has to weigh on the balance of probabilities having strong regard to the requirements set in the various Acts. Maximum contact being a significant factor to consider...

              Both parents are going to have to be "flexible" to meet all of their children's needs after seperation and divorce. This may mean that the child is bottle fed and possibly fed formula. There are a number of ways for which these parents could maximize the child's consumption of being fed breast milk but, that would take both parents to recognize and compromise. One parent shouldn't have to compromise everything to the other parent. The court will seek balance generally and make an order that is appropriate in accordance with the "best interests". Breast feeding in my opinion in an in-tact family is a great option for the child but, we are not dealing with that in this discussion. The family has undergone a significant change and this throws "the baby out the window with the bath water" in many "extreme" breast feeding positions.

              I am a self admitted 'lactivist'. I hold the position that "breast milk is better" not "the best" in all situations.

              But, there are extreme people in this movement who are more motivated by "emotion" and unable to see the larger scope of change that parents face. Their advocacy is to the extreme in my opinion that they create unnecessary anxiety in parents about breast feeding. My concern as a self admitted "lactivist" that we as a society need to have options on feeding infants <6 months of age.

              By the way, males can breastfeed... It isn't an easy thing to do but, in third world many fathers have actually breastfed their children when the mother dies.

              Milk Junkies: Trans Women and Breastfeeding: The Health Care Provider

              The transgender community will bring much needed change over time to the old concepts of parenting. Trevor is leading this pack and I encourage him to continue exploring the opportunity of transgender mothers to breastfeed.

              Good Luck!
              Tayken
              Last edited by Tayken; 07-21-2013, 08:05 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                After 2 months, the antibodies that are not found in formula are absent from breast milk.
                Wrong. Not the point of the argument but inaccurate anyway.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Upon further thought, I have two words I wish I could advise the father in question. "Milk bank." I'd love to see how the mother would fight that one.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Skewed, biased, sensationalist reporting.
                    The child wasn't breast fed at all, he was on formula from his birth - that's why the court made this decision.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                      Wrong. Not the point of the argument but inaccurate anyway.
                      Actually, it kinda is the point of the article/arguement. She won't exchange the child(s) because she says her doctor told her to breast-feed for six months.

                      ...Plus, she really enjoys the bonding.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                        Actually, it kinda is the point of the article/arguement. She won't exchange the child(s) because she says her doctor told her to breast-feed for six months.

                        ...Plus, she really enjoys the bonding.
                        LOL about the bonding WO....

                        What Tayken wrote is incorrect. Antibodies do not stop being produced in breast milk magically at 2 months.

                        I think breast feeding is an issue that creates a lot of strong feelings. Weighing the importance of breast feeding against the rights of a father is an interesting discussion.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BitHunter View Post
                          Skewed, biased, sensationalist reporting.
                          The child wasn't breast fed at all, he was on formula from his birth - that's why the court made this decision.
                          Really BitHunter? Where did you read that?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                            LOL about the bonding WO....

                            What Tayken wrote is incorrect. Antibodies do not stop being produced in breast milk magically at 2 months.

                            I think breast feeding is an issue that creates a lot of strong feelings. Weighing the importance of breast feeding against the rights of a father is an interesting discussion.

                            Two months, or six months. Either way, not breast-feeding for 8 days out of any given month isn't really going to affect the transfer of anti-bodies, proteins, etc.

                            Will it?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Anecdotally, on the other end of the scale - I'm pretty sure I watched a Springer episode about some crazy momma still breast-feeding her outrageously old kid (think he was like 7!), who also weighed about six hundred pound.

                              The Mom's weight was proportional - but that's another thing.

                              I think that's not really in the best interests - but just because she's Mom, she gets to 'call it', and say it is?

                              No erasies!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                                Two months, or six months. Either way, not breast-feeding for 8 days out of any given month isn't really going to affect the transfer of anti-bodies, proteins, etc.

                                Will it?
                                I didn't say it would/wouldn't affect the baby.

                                Tayken made a statement that was not accurate and not supported by medicine. Just giving information to others so they can do their own research.

                                Comment

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