Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-23-2021, 12:37 AM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
trueblue22 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default New personal loans after separation

My ex has provided updated financial disclosure and it includes a new personal debt. He doesn't list who he owes the money to (but it's a substantial amount over 6 figures) but he can show that this money was provided to him. He claims he borrowed the money to pay for living expenses for himself and the children since I won't let him access the credit available on the home equity line.

Can my lawyer force him to disclose this source of funds and how this money was spent? He could have taken out money from his corporation but decided to borrow it instead.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-23-2021, 09:48 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,755
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

He can borrow money after separation. He just cant make you pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-23-2021, 12:35 PM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
trueblue22 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
He can borrow money after separation. He just can�t make you pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I understand that but do I have a right to know where this money comes from? I want to be able to verify he didn't take a lump sum of this money prior to us separating and is now receiving it back under the guise of a loan.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-23-2021, 01:12 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,755
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

I dont think he has to divulge details. Just that its a loan. You could request additional disclosure but you would need to outline that you cannot fo forward with your case without it. That would be hard to prove.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-23-2021, 03:13 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,272
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
I don�t think he has to divulge details. Just that its a loan. You could request additional disclosure but you would need to outline that you cannot fo forward with your case without it. That would be hard to prove.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Actually he will have to disclose the source of the money if he wants to rely upon it for any reason in the argument. As part of Rule 13 you can ask for the disclosure of the loan details. This often happens when someone tries to say they are broke and had to take a loan from their parents... But, without the proper paperwork it is NOT a loan but a gift in the eyes of the court.

A loan is an agreement with terms signed by the person providing the loan and the person getting the loan. In accordance with Rule 13 you can request those details if they put the loan on their Form 13.1/13. Its part of financial disclosure.

It is pretty routine disclosure to ask for... In fact, its probably money from a family member (gift) that they are trying to pass off as a loan. Quite common.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-23-2021, 04:12 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,755
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

What would be a reasonable argument? In my husbands case the judge said loans or how he paid for things had no bearing on his income and he could use credit to pay for his lifestyle choices as long as he didnt claim hardship, it didnt matter what his credit or loans were.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:56 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,272
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
What would be a reasonable argument? In my husband�s case the judge said loans or how he paid for things had no bearing on his income and he could use credit to pay for his lifestyle choices as long as he didn�t claim hardship, it didn�t matter what his credit or loans were.
Nothing churns on the loans or his credit. The judge is correct. People often try to leverage them incorrectly to say "look how broke I am your Honour" to get sympathy. They have no bearing on the argument generally.

Where they matter is when someone is claiming they are broke, get family gifts to pay for legal fees or a life style. Some times judges will consider them to be income in extreme situations when there is significant family wealth. Especially when that party is aggressively litigating the matter.

"Family money gives you wings..." (Same concept as Legal Aid giving someone wings to ruthlessly and recklessly litigate.)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:59 AM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
trueblue22 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Actually he will have to disclose the source of the money if he wants to rely upon it for any reason in the argument. As part of Rule 13 you can ask for the disclosure of the loan details. This often happens when someone tries to say they are broke and had to take a loan from their parents... But, without the proper paperwork it is NOT a loan but a gift in the eyes of the court.

A loan is an agreement with terms signed by the person providing the loan and the person getting the loan. In accordance with Rule 13 you can request those details if they put the loan on their Form 13.1/13. Its part of financial disclosure.

It is pretty routine disclosure to ask for... In fact, its probably money from a family member (gift) that they are trying to pass off as a loan. Quite common.
What if he provides a loan agreement (a document signed by both parties) with the details of the lender blacked out? Would that make the loan considered "legitimate"? All this is speculation but I am trying to prepare myself.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:02 AM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 87
trueblue22 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Nothing churns on the loans or his credit. The judge is correct. People often try to leverage them incorrectly to say "look how broke I am your Honour" to get sympathy. They have no bearing on the argument generally.

Where they matter is when someone is claiming they are broke, get family gifts to pay for legal fees or a life style. Some times judges will consider them to be income in extreme situations when there is significant family wealth. Especially when that party is aggressively litigating the matter.

"Family money gives you wings..." (Same concept as Legal Aid giving someone wings to ruthlessly and recklessly litigate.)
My ex's lawyer indicated he borrowed money from a friend since he isn't allowed access to any credit due to my name being on the family mortgage and because we have no separation agreement. It looks like they are blaming me for sitting on the matrimonial home and making me seem unreasonable for not allowing him access to credit.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:04 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,755
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue22 View Post
My ex's lawyer indicated he borrowed money from a friend since he isn't allowed access to any credit due to my name being on the family mortgage and because we have no separation agreement. It looks like they are blaming me for sitting on the matrimonial home and making me seem unreasonable for not allowing him access to credit.

Well technically you are being unreasonable. Mostly for the reasons in your other threads but now because he has no access to credit because a) you are refusing to sell his asset and b) he has no access to the line of credit on the property he owns.

His argument is correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rules for separation longer than the required one year menchia Divorce & Family Law 5 10-15-2018 08:13 AM
Separation Agreement Mouse_117 Divorce & Family Law 6 09-18-2010 03:37 PM
Validity of a Separation Agreement NewGirlfriend Divorce & Family Law 9 12-11-2008 07:30 AM
More Questions- re unsecured personal loans movingon Financial Issues 1 07-21-2006 04:59 AM
Questions about legal separation mommyof2 Financial Issues 3 11-04-2005 10:26 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:01 PM.