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  • To Be Sad and Angered at the Same Time

    The other day I have the great privledge of visiting my local family court house to obtain a copy of yet another endorsement following up on my FRO default hearing with the ex when I inadvertantly overheard a conversation between a court worker and a gentleman who had been there due to his own family matter.
    The court worker was telling the man he needed to go and visit the FLIC (family law information clinic) office ... the man stated that he had already been there, waited over an hour in line and when got himself in front of a lawyer, answered all their questions about income, was told that the FLIC office could not help him because he made too much money.
    The man stated to the court worker that indeed, his income was not below standard level, but that due to child support, living expenses, and such, there was nothing left for him to hire a lawyer with!!??!!
    The clerk told him to go back to the FLIC office and go through the process again and hopefully he would get a different counsel and maybe that one would help him....
    I watched this man shake his head in disbelief and with almost complete greif wash over his face, he bowed his head, slumped his shoulders and quietly walked out of the courthouse and headed for the parking lot.

    How saddened I was at that moment....and how angered I was at the same time!!!

    How many more of us...who make a standard living ~ not one of poverty and not close enough to claim welfare and legal aide ~ but who work hard daily to support ourselves and our children and try and do the right thing by staying employed and working hard...and who cannot get the legal advice and support that we need??!!!

    Just saying.....

  • #2
    Vote for a government that will raise taxes in order to properly fund legal aid. Convince your neighbours, start a Facebook page and spend all day on radio call-in shows to make your point. Then get ready for the backlash coming from people who still make $1000 over the new limit who can't get Legal Aid and complain that their ex is getting free lawyers and forcing them in bankruptcy.

    Now, I was being sarcastic, but probably something more helpful would be to lobby to have paralegals allowed to practice family law. That would cut legal fees in half for most people and everyone would have at least basic representation. Some municipalities in Ontario are now hiring paralegals to act as prosecutors for HTA offences, if they are capable of that then they are more than capable of offering the half hour that man would have gotten at FLIC.

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    • #3
      i feel for anyone in such a state

      i may be in same situation shortly

      lawyers perform a service , it would be nice if they had to bid for your file instead of the B/S system we have now ...

      they provide a service just like someone hired to landscape your back yard or building a complicated computer software program - its their area of expertise and they've seen it all before

      think of it for just a moment - during the life of a divorce lawyers actually examine your net worth through something called disclosure - they know exactly how much $ you and credit you have ...

      you wont find that in any engineering or similar complicated 'project' type transaction between two parties where one pays the other ...

      i am 1/8 million $ into lawyers over past 3 years and no end in sight and my X is a documented "violent" abuser

      my brother who has no $ was divorced and child access settled in a few months , he got legal aid - he felt they just ignored him not returning his calls etc ...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by pokeman View Post
        i am 1/8 million $ into lawyers over past 3 years and no end in sight and my X is a documented "violent" abuser
        Then you are playing it very poorly.

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        • #5
          Nobody wants to "play" this type of scenerio. Its unfortunate that some people end up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just to have a fair and reasonable break up...with or without children.

          Lawyers have the ability to take advantage of a situation. People have the ability to misuse their lawyers and unsuspectingly cause themselves thousands of dollars. Ex's have the ability to delay the process and in the end the only suffering is to the children of separation and divorce....
          The lawyers fees take away from food, clothing and shelter, extra curricular activities, education and last but not least...the emotional debt that can occur.

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          • #6
            Paralegals should NOT be practising family law! The Highway Traffic Act is cut and dry, family law is not. Lawyers learn much more than simply law in school, which is why they cost the money...they are qualified.

            While I agree that FLIC is crap for the middle class poor (that's all of us that work to pay the bills, make too much for legal aid, and not enough for lawyer's fees), extra funding to legal aid will not help that...educating the masses on family law will. The legislation changed to allow people to represent themselves in family court, but the courts in Ontario offer no education on how it works. For one hour's fees at the lawyer, you can find a family law course in most major centres that will teach you how the system works, and how to represent yourself in it.

            What Ontario needs is what has already been done in Texas...not-for-profit legal clinics...for everyone, not just those below a threshold income...where you pay what you can afford. Plain and simple. It is my retirement dream to see one open in Ontario...but I'm still a long way off...and would likely have to fight the LSUC every step of the way!

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            • #7
              PS Maggie...you can always refer them here

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              • #8
                Originally posted by InterprovincialParents View Post
                Paralegals should NOT be practising family law! The Highway Traffic Act is cut and dry, family law is not. Lawyers learn much more than simply law in school, which is why they cost the money...they are qualified.
                I agree.... It takes years to aquire a license to practice family law in this country, and even getting accepted into law school is highly competative, and VERY expensive... whereas one can aquire a paralegal license in less than 2 years at many community colleges, for less than $5000.

                They are simply not qualified to advise on family law matters.

                That being said, I have dealt with a few lawyers throughout the years and I wonder how they made it through grade school, let alone law school...
                I assume it had more to do with rich, affluent parents, then actual intelligence and skill.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by representingself View Post
                  That being said, I have dealt with a few lawyers throughout the years and I wonder how they made it through grade school, let alone law school...
                  I assume it had more to do with rich, affluent parents, then actual intelligence and skill.
                  lol...and then there are some of us out there without the rich, affluent parents who are doing it on are own because we are passionate about it

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                  • #10
                    What a can of worms.

                    I have an idea. We have to stop the government from enforcing one code of law. Then, people will have no choice but to have prenuptial insurance.

                    If you want legal costs to be cheaper, you have to permit competition in the market for family law. What that means is that instead of everybody in the same jurisdiction being obligated to follow the exact same code of family law, you let people pick and choose what type of prenuptial agreement they want. The terms of the prenuptial agreement will contain all provisions for mediating and resolving disputes. Our churches and marriage registrars will be like your insurance brokers.

                    The insurance companies that offer the best mediation services to accompany their marriage registration services will get the most customers. So, instead of us poor losers being at the mercy of lawyers, the lawyers will be at the mercy of us, the customers.

                    Of course, my idea will never happen because historically, most politicians are either lawyers themselves or incestuously related to the legal profession -- a business that inherently depends on unfair government privilege sheltering it from free market forces

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                    • #11
                      IPParents: I agree that Paralegals should not practise family law and I say that while biting my tongue!! I don't beleive that family law should be a "practise" as per se. Family Law is not a black and white situation and there are many many grey areas and particularly the emotion that comes into play, the physical and emotional well being of children as well as the financial health of the people who are seeking to separate and/or divorce.
                      What we need in this province is separation and divorce eduation.
                      And this is something I will advocate until my dying days!!
                      I am now in my 40's and as a child was in the middle of a hostile/agressive parental divorce that caused years of parental alienation and emotional and physical damage to both myself and my siblings...I beleive that due to that upbringing, I have suffered through 2 failed relationships and have been through the divorce senerio twice ... I hope that my choices through those divorces have saved my children from being as broken as I was!!
                      If education was provided and mandatory BEFORE anyone sees the inside of a court house it may save a number of families the grief and suffering and the loss of alot of money to lawyers.
                      I am in the process of obtaining my Family Mediation Certification and truly beleive that I was meant to help in the process (I just can't figure out any other reason why I experienced what I did in life...if nothing but to help others through it) and to look at making changes in the system.
                      There are other provinces and states that make education and mediation mandatory before court papers can be processed.

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                      • #12
                        Most provinces now require parents who are divorcing to attend a parenting course dealing with divorce, and parenting through the turmoil. Alberta also now offers a course on communicating with an ex when it is difficult. Ontario does not offer the last course, although you can participate in it by contacting the court of queen's bench in Alberta and putting in a request...

                        Congratulations on your certification process...ADR is fairly new, and fairly contentious, although many courts are adding a mandatory ADR clause in Divorce Orders with more frequency.

                        Comment

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