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  • #31
    I agree that the ex is being unreasonable, but did you think of the ramifications of the ultimatum? The likely outcome to the ultimatum is the ex starts taking the kids for their prescribed parenting time, and they all couch surf until the ex finds a permanent place to stay. The ex isn't going to want to give up C/S, so they will exercise their parenting time in spite of it not being in the kids best interests. This helps no one, and upsets everyone.
    From the OPs original post, this issue didn't just start when he became homeless. He hasn't been exercising his entire access for some time regardless. I think its fine to work with someone who's having life issues and needs a reasonable time period to get back on their feet but this sounds like an ongoing decline.

    If the guy was working with her, I would agree, she should work with him to find a compromise. But all he's doing is over time not showing up expecting to get paid like he is. That's nonsense.

    The OP shouldn't be paying child support out of fear that he might not be in the best interest of his kids. He's their father....to me, if he's that irresponsible to not work with her and find a reasonable solution on a safe place for the kids and a reasonable amount of time based on access...all the more reason she should be seeking a change.

    The OP clearly made it sounds like this situation is due to irresponsibility on the part of the ex. So should she continue paying unfair support in fear every time he does something similarly stupid?

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    • #32
      I completely understand where you are coming from in terms of not trying to upset everyone, but actually reality is you don't want to upset the person that is causing the problem. This sends a clear message to them that it's okay for them to do this and they will push the boundaries further I guarantee that.

      He's not stupid that he knows he shouldn't be collecting CS if he doesn't have the children, he just knows he can get away with it cause she lets him. And yes, he gets to see them when he wants to as well. Brilliant for the kids.

      And I don't really see a problem if the outcome that he spends more time with his kids, isn't that the whole point here? It's also great if it forces him to find an apartment, it forces change and makes him aware that he can't do as he pleases. Oh yea, lesson is accountability.

      However, I'm not a predictor of outcomes but if he is as selfish as he sounds, there is a chance that will not happen as well.

      Either way, she does nothing and let him do his thing, it's just him having complete control of the situation and sets a further precedent that shows no accountability to his children or her. The only way these people learn *and sometimes they don't* is being held accountable.

      This is the problem, we assume reasonable solutions to someone that isn't reasonable in the first place. A reasonable person would say here have the kids, don't pay me child support, I will figure out what I need to do. Nope...here are the kids, you better not stop child support...seriously?

      Sometimes in life, you have to grow some balls or else the other person will walk right over you as he is doing right now to her and THEIR kids.

      It's called short term pain for long term gain.
      Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
      I agree that the ex is being unreasonable, but did you think of the ramifications of the ultimatum? The likely outcome to the ultimatum is the ex starts taking the kids for their prescribed parenting time, and they all couch surf until the ex finds a permanent place to stay. The ex isn't going to want to give up C/S, so they will exercise their parenting time in spite of it not being in the kids best interests. This helps no one, and upsets everyone.

      The courts may make a change in custody. But how hard would it be for the ex to find a place to stay, be it with family or a small apartment. Once he has something remotely considered a residence, any motion filed by the OP loses its legs.

      Trust me, I give no credit to the Ex here, as they have created this crappy situation. But there is no need to drag the kids further into this crappy situation by giving ultimatums, which is what would inevitably happen.

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      • #33
        Good insight FirstTimer. Some people don't want to rock the boat. Some just do what's best for the kids.

        My husband paid CS for his 2 daughters. When the oldest came to live with us, he continued to pay the same amount. It was clear Mom wasn't going to step up. When the oldest finished school and got a job and bought a house, he continued to pay Mom the same 2 child amount for 1 child (the girls are 9 years apart in age). When he lost his job the support continued (I paid it). Child support stopped when the youngest completed her post-secondary. Not because he asked to stop it, but because his FRO worker said it was time to stop. That was just last August. Now the youngest is working but still living with Mom. Guess who's paying the rent?

        Some think he allowed the Mom to take advantage of him, but he just feels like he was doing what he had to do to take care of the kids.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
          OP did your ex inform you of his housing situation or is he just not picking the kids up and you found out some other way?
          The children were there when the Sheriff showed up and told them to leave. They told us when they returned home that day. He's said nothing to us about it at all.

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          • #35
            I want to thank everyone for all the different points of you. You've all certainly given me a lot to think about - though it certainly hasn't helped me make a decision!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by HappyMomma View Post
              I want to thank everyone for all the different points of you. You've all certainly given me a lot to think about - though it certainly hasn't helped me make a decision!
              It is never an easy decision, however I think HammerDad made some very valid points. If you file now, what is stopping your ex from walking into the welfare office getting all set up on that and then you would lose your motion and he would have a free lawyer through legal aid. If you document and have a new status quo, that will make your chances in court higher.

              Good luck... your children will know who the go to parent is!

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              • #37
                You know what i'd do? I'd put all the sh@t behind you for a few days, pass no judgement and ask - what can I do to help you with your housing situation? And what can I do to ensure that you have quality and meaningful time with the kids while you sort out this situation?

                That's what I'd do. And I wouldn't wait another minute to do it.

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                • #38
                  Okay, basically a person like him will read this as her saying, "Hey come on in now, wipe your feet on my dreams", and that's what he will do and will continue to do again and again if things don't change. This isn't just a child support issue, this is a much bigger issue of control, accountability and being respectful of the other party and most importantly your kids. The dynamics need to change for their sake.

                  Nothing personal and no offense, I love your killing with kindness angle but it's misdirected. I think we have some serious enablers here. She needs to stand up for her belief's. I support her and we should be giving her some courage and inspiration to step up for her children and a smart way to do it.


                  Originally posted by Serene View Post
                  You know what i'd do? I'd put all the sh@t behind you for a few days, pass no judgement and ask - what can I do to help you with your housing situation? And what can I do to ensure that you have quality and meaningful time with the kids while you sort out this situation?

                  That's what I'd do. And I wouldn't wait another minute to do it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by FirstTimer View Post
                    Okay, basically a person like him will read this as her saying, "Hey come on in now, wipe your feet on my dreams", and that's what he will do and will continue to do again and again if things don't change. This isn't just a child support issue, this is a much bigger issue of control, accountability and being respectful of the other party and most importantly your kids. The dynamics need to change for their sake.

                    Nothing personal and no offense, I love your killing with kindness angle but it's misdirected. I think we have some serious enablers here. She needs to stand up for her belief's. I support her and we should be giving her some courage and inspiration to step up for her children and a smart way to do it.
                    Yep, I would agree with this as well. We all (most of us) want to do the right thing, but sometimes the right thing means being a little selfish for the sake of self-preservation. When dealing with someone who - for whatever reason - can't seem to get their poop together, there comes a time when you have to cut them off.

                    Hammerdad had the best idea so far. You have to weigh the costs to YOU and your family, both financial and emotional.

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                    • #40
                      Or weigh the costs to the children.

                      Sorry to be such an idealist. But it costs nothing to be kind. And ensuring the kids have meaningful access with dad is not enabling him. At least not in my opinion.

                      Anyways, I know what I would do....and even if it caused me personally some hardship, I'd still do it. To each their own.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Serene View Post
                        Or weigh the costs to the children.

                        Sorry to be such an idealist. But it costs nothing to be kind. And ensuring the kids have meaningful access with dad is not enabling him. At least not in my opinion.

                        Anyways, I know what I would do....and even if it caused me personally some hardship, I'd still do it. To each their own.
                        "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one" true enough but it actually does cost something to be kind with certain people who would take advantage of your kindness. For the sake of the children - teach them not to be manipulated by those who would profit from their good intentions.

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                        • #42
                          Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting giving him $$. Maybe it's as simple as finding something free to do, packing some snacks or a lunch for them while with dad, sending along a puzzle for them to do to entertain themselves....whatever.

                          It's not manipulation when you offer to do something for someone.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Serene View Post
                            You know what i'd do? I'd put all the sh@t behind you for a few days, pass no judgement and ask - what can I do to help you with your housing situation? And what can I do to ensure that you have quality and meaningful time with the kids while you sort out this situation?

                            That's what I'd do. And I wouldn't wait another minute to do it.

                            If you were dealing with a sane, rational person, then yes, ABSOLUTELY. I would do exactly the same. My ex is neither. If there was anything rational about him he would not be in this situation to begin with.

                            There is a reason I stay in the car when I drop off the children and our communication has been reduced to email.

                            As far as quality time with the children goes - I have always encouraged that. I have even suggested he just come by and pick them up for the evening/afternoon just so they can see him but he chooses not to. I can't force him to spend time with them.
                            Last edited by HappyMomma; 01-10-2015, 11:56 AM.

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