Did I screw up? If so, how bad?

[Grauwulf]

This is my first post, I've been reading the site for a couple of days now while I waited for my account to be activated and I have read a lot of good info. I'm hoping you guys can give me some idea of if I've shot myself in the foot or not while I'm waiting to get to see a lawyer.

My ex and I split up March of last year, I was unemployed at the time. At the time we agreed to do everything between ourselves and hammered out a separation agreement that took us about 6 months to tweak the way we wanted it. The two things we dealt with first were child support and spousal support. I asked for the divorce because of a massive breach of trust and emotional manipulation, so I didn't feel she deserved anything, but we negotiated and I agreed to give her some for the same duration we were marrieds for, 18 months. She wanted to have a lawyer review it before she signed it, which I thought was reasonable. Anyhow, now the separation agreement has been scrapped and he lawyer wants to re-do it and they want more SS than what we had agreed to. My ex waited until after I had served her with the divorce documents at the beginning of Feb to take everything to the lawyer. I spoke to her lawyer about a week after that who promised me I would have an answer in my hands by the following Friday. I work away from home, so when I came home, I found nothing waiting for me. I called her lawyer and was promised again that I would have it by the following Friday and she asked if I would sign something consenting to a late file. I said I would consider it. This was Feb 17. Came back from work on March 1, still no documents. The divorce could be set down on March 2, so I waited until the 4th to go to the courthouse and set down the divorce since the 30 days were up and I had not received anything from my ex or her laywer. Fast forward to March 15, and I finally get a letter from her lawyer dated March 2 stating that I would have the answer and the Form13 by March 11. I didn't receive her Answer and Form13 until March 29. The divorce was granted and I receievd the paperwork from the court on March 29. Jump to Wed of last week and I get a nasty phone call from her lawyer for going behind her back and filing the paperwork after she has told me it was coming. I informed her that yes, she had promised it to me *twice* and never delivered or made a follow up phone call to let me know that I wasn't going to get it in time. I got nearly *zero* communication from her, how long did she expect me to wait? I also informed here there was a bunch of stuff on my ex's form 13 that were incomplete or incorrect and it was going to have to be re-done properly. What she is threatening to do if I won't sign a consent to set the judgement aside is to go before the court and ask for it citing me for acting in bad faith. Now I don't feel I acted in bad faith, I served the documents properly and filed everything correctly with the court as per the Family Law Rules. She had her 30 days to file an answer or return the divorce papers to me signed, neither of which happened. When I pointed that out to her lawyer I was told that 'No one abides by the 30 days, you can't get everything done in that amount of time.' Sounds like a load of BS to me.

Anyhow, that's where I stand right now. I am seeking legal council as I now feel like I'm in a little over my head, but I'd really like some opinions on if what it did was proper and what may likely happen if I stand my ground. The spousal support is the *only* thing being disputed at this point.

Thanks in advance!

[dinkyface]

Stand your ground. The lawyer is trying to intimidate you - that's a lawyer's biggest trick. It can be (almost) amusing to see how they flop around if you keep the hook in (unfortunately none of this is funny).

But, keep in mind that your legal costs can rise VERY quickly, so keep a perspective on how much $$s you are fighting over.

[Grauwulf]

That certianly is something I am trying to keep in mind. Neither one of us have a lot of money. The fact that she is trying to bully me isn't a surprise. I gave her a bit of grief about how she was talking to me on the phone, she was being very rude and belligerent, and I told her that if she didn't start conducting herself like the professional she is supposed to be I was going to hang up on her and that would be the end of me talking to her. Her manner changed in a flash. The only thing I have been able to get out of either of them is that they want me to pay SS until my son is in school full time, so 3-4 years. They won't even talk about a $$$ value until they see my Form13.
Oh, the other thing I forgot to mention is that I was laid off and on EI for 12 out of the 18 months we were married and a month after we separated I landed a good job making double what I made at my last job. Will that fact have any bearing on what I can expect them to ask for in the way of spousal support?

[NBDad]

You were only married for 18months? Yeah, she doesn't deserve spousal unless she left a career to move in with you or something.

Spousal is NOT an automatic entitlement, it has to be proven. At 18 months, AT BEST she'd be looking at 9 months of spousal.

CS is a given, but if she isn't working she needs her wages imputed to full time hours at min wage. She has to put on the big girl pants now and work to support herself.

[dinkyface]

Sounds like they are blurring the line between spousal support and child support (and splitting of daycare costs and other section 7 expenses).

Is your CS agreement pretty much in line with the Federal Guidelines on Child Support? If yes, then there's no reason to make SS contingent on kid's school attendance. If no, then your negotiation task becomes more difficult because they can argue for SS guideline exceptions because CS is not as per guidelines i.e. too many 'moving parts' in the negotiation.

If you are not already well educated in the CS guidelines and SS guidelines, then I'd suggest you start learning quick.

[Grauwulf]

She does work, she has a home based day care. Based on the financial info she gave be, her income has been relatively constant for the last 3 years and her income since we split has actually gone up slightly. Because of what she does for employment, having custody of our son does *not* impact her ability to work, and there are no child care costs.

I'm hoping that the fact that her income has been fairly constant from before we were married and living together to now that it will show that she is perfectly capable of supporting herself. She also has a roomie to split costs with.

Child support is based on the table amount and that is all she is asking for. Because I was unemployed for so long and we weren't sure if EI was classified as 'social assistance' or not, so I gave her CS based on what I what I projected I was going to earn this year. Unfortunately, my pay came in at about $10k less than I projected, so I have over paid her for CS. I am *not* going to ask for the overpayment back, even if I can. But I will use it as a negotiation tool if I can though. Currently there are no Section 7 expenses.

[holdthemaccountable]

I assume Gauwulf that you know about the 40% rule?

Raise your child between 40-60% of the time over the course of the year and if you make 50K and she makes 50K with one kid you pay....$0 per month in child support.

Raise your child between 60-100% of the time over the course of the year and if you make 50K and she makes 50K with one kid she pays you...$462 per month in child support

Raise your child between 0 and 40% of the time over the course of the year and if you make 50K and she makes 50K with one kid you pay her...$462 per month in child support.

Spousal support? She is asking for spousal support and you were married 18 months? Are you sure she is asking for spousal support?

Be very careful to what you agree to in terms of raising your child. Your access will only be at most the exact specific days found in any minutes of settlement, court order, agreement etc. If you think that if words such as "will provide reasonable access" "additional access may be granted" are inserted into the order then....I have an old pair of socks for sale only $5000! Such phrases carry virtually no weight. As I understand it they are really an the inside joke of the system. When you ex-wife in the future only offers you the exact minimum of what is found in the order try going to the police and saying...but...but the order said additional access may be granted and she is not doing that...I just want to raise my son/daughter more...." No luck buddy.

Beware these types of phrase (ie "as such reasonable access as may be given etc. etc.)

You need specific days set out. Here is another thing to bear in mind. Lets say this year you can only access you child 2 times per week, for whatever reason, but you know or believe that 3 years into the future you will be able to access your child 4 or 5 days per week. Well if this is the case then put in your minutes of settlement that in 2011 you will have access 20% of the time or 2 days per week and in 2014 your wil have access 45% of the time or 3.5 days per week.

Here is shameless trick that can be played upon people. Someone tells you that the judge always awards custody etc. to the other parent so therefore they advise you to settle for what you do not want.(Ie don't get to raise your child!)

Also when you go to court ASK FOR A WRITTEN RULING!!!!!

If someone else is making decisions that will impact the rest of your life ask to get a written ruling. Have a lawyer! Send your lawyer an email telling your lawyer that you want a written ruling and want your lawyer to inform the court of this.

I would never go to court and not insist upon my rights which are that I am entitled to and that is a written ruling.

Also once you sign on the dotted line.....thats virutally it forever.


Of course this is all just my opinion and should not be construed as legal advice.

[Grauwulf]

Unfortunately I am unable to have my son much more than what I do now, which is every other weekend, and one full week a year. I am on the road 18+ days a month. And yes, she is specifically asking for Spousal Support. Both her and her lawyer seem to think she can get it. And spousal support is the *only* thing being disputed at this point. Child support is the table amount, and I am okay with the access arrangements as they stand. We've been through a year of being separated and working around holidays and shift cycle changes and day to day things that crop up and we don't have a problem working things out. This appears to simply be a money grab, and as far as paying her spousal support, that's not really my concern at this point. I may have set a precedent by giving her something in the first place when she shouldn't have gotten squat, but one problem at a time.
I'm just trying to sort out if I have made a procedural mistake by handling things the way I have. I don't believe I have and based on some of the responses, the general consensus seems to be that I have done it right, and I should stick to my guns. I have a consultation with a lawyer on Thursday, and once I review with him where things stand right now I should have a better picture of where I truly stand. I don't have a very high opinion of my ex's lawyer as a lawyer, just from my interactions with her and the way she has handled things, she doesn't seem too professional.

[holdthemaccountable]

Here is a quick post. Get stuff in writing from the other lawyer.
If she won't give it in writing. Tape record the converstations that you are part of. This is easy and cheap to set up once you know how and legal.
Also if you have already given her some spousal support look at the glass half empty half full scenario. You have already shown good faith by giving her money out of kindness when you did not have to..etc.

Of course this is just my opinion and should not be construed as legal advice

[holdthemaccountable]

Here is something to remember. If you end up making some legally binding document then put in it...."Child support will end when the child is 18."

I know a lot of people who are paying child support for a 25 year adult child.

While this is my opinion regarding something over a decade away, sadly you will soon see how time flies. Note put the above line in to at least attempt to make it so that when your child is 18 it is up to you if you give her/him money(just like all other non-divorced parents have this option) and it is not the state that forces you.

Also be forewarned! YOu will only get to see you child the exact days that it says in any agreement. Terms such as "liberal additional access may be given" "additional access will be granted" etc. MEAN NOTHING!

If it says you only get you kid one weeks vacation per year plus additational liberal access....all you will get is...one weeks vacation per year.

But you say at the moment you can work such things out...well if that is the case then she won't mind encoding these holidays etc. into writing.

When she gets remarried and another man lives with her I doubt she may not be as keen to dole out additional time.

I'd ask the lawyer if there was anyway to put into the court order that income will always be calculated on taxable income and not implied income!

But why you ask????

Note. Lets say 10 years from now you are exhausted from working. You're making 80K per year but you just can't take the pace anymore. Child support says you pay her $1098 after tax dollars(this is what the guidelines say). You also have to pay for $400 per month in extra curricular expenses. You want to cut back so you take a job that pays 40K. At 40K per year you would pay $367 per month in CS. The ex however wants the $1098. She takes you to court. Guess what? The court can imply income to you and say you are underemployed and therefore force you to pay $1098 per month in child support.

this often happens. If you are the one who decides to work at a job that pays less....you still have to pay as if you were at the higher paying job. You no longer have the choice in life to take a lower paying job without being forced to pay the formed same amount even if this means you go broke.

In terms of spousal support. I'd stick to my guns.

This is all just my opinion and should not be construed as legal advice.

[billm]

... Child support is the table amount...

Make sure your agreement states that CS is adjusted automatically July 1 every year based on tax returns from previous year, and that tax NOA (notice of assessments) be exchanged before then, and the ramification if they are not.

Do not have specific support $ numbers in the agreement, they should state to use the tables.

Also state CS in terms of custody and greater income earner, not specifically by who has the child (her) and the current custody agreement (she has the child more than 60%) of the time. State what the current custody is, and state how CS is calculated based on custody (>60%, the the other parent pays full table, or 40 to 60%, the greater income earner pays the other the difference between the parents table amounts).

[Grauwulf]

Okay, I've got a little update. Had a meeting with a lawyer yesterday, whom I decided to retain. He has advised me not to sign anything in regards to having the divorce judgment set aside, my ex's lawyer is simply trying to hold that hostage to get what they want. Fortunately for me my lawyer has gone up against her lawyer before. We ran the numbers through the divorcemate software for spousal support and the amount I have been paying her for spousal up until this point is right about the median amount based on our respective incomes. The software is also saying a time period of 4-16 years for support. That's just messed up for an 18 month marriage. But now the negotiations begin.

[TLCRN]

I advise you to read to read up on "child support guidelines" as there are rules as to how long one has to pay for child support. Speaking from experience, one has to continue to pay chid support for a child over the age of 18 if attending school full time, including Section 7. There are a lot of factors taken into consideration, including schooling and how much the child is making on their own, and expenses.

[Grauwulf]

We're talking spousal support, and spousal support only. Child support is the table amount to be adjusted every July 1, based on the previous year's income.

[TLCRN]

not that easy, and is up for debate if there is an income to be imputed which is another topic all by itself. Good Luck!