Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cancel access due to child on public transportation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Cancel access due to child on public transportation

    The mother of my child stated on Sunday via a text that due to the fact that I took my four year old on public transportation that she is cancelling all access, until I comply with her decision of no public transportation.

    The child and I did wear the required masks.

    I have not received anything from her lawyer yet, but wondering if the lawyer states the same thing, if I should bring an urgent motion, as the next access visit is Sunday.

    I have only received a few texts on the Sunday and nothing else from her or her lawyer.

    I am currently the interim access parent but in court seeking custody and expanded access.

    Wondering if I should also send something to her lawyer?

    Thank you in advance, for any thoughts.

  • #2
    I wouldn’t even justify those texts with an answer. Just show up on Sunday for pick up time, if she is a no show then document (via email not text) and if she replies to you via email that she plans on continuing to withhold access then I would be filing a motion right away.
    If she or her lawyer are dumb enough to let it get in front of a judge they will be toast.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you very much!!!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Ignoring her texts will look very bad in front of a judge. There have been Orders since Covid specifying that public transit is not to be used for access visits (and one parent was denied access due to being a bus driver). Can you get a ride with a friend/family member in your “bubble”, or price Uber? If you are going before a judge you want to be able to say you went above and beyond current protocols, were sensitive to your co-parent’s concerns, respectful in communication, and putting your child’s best interests above your own even if it cost you additional money. Sorry, it sucks, but judges don’t ride buses and don’t know why some people have to.
        Last edited by tilt; 07-28-2020, 09:19 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you!

          Comment


          • #6
            The content of the two texts basically said- in a pretty aggressive way- that I will hear from her lawyer, so I decided to not respond as it happened on Sunday, and was already after the fact of the TTC ride.

            The next visit is scheduled for this Sunday, so I figured I would wait and see if the lawyer contacts me.

            The text also said that all future visits are cancelled.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tilt View Post
              Ignoring her texts will look very bad in front of a judge. There have been Orders since Covid specifying that public transit is not to be used for access visits (and one parent was denied access due to being a bus driver). Can you get a ride with a friend/family member in your “bubble”, or price Uber? If you are going before a judge you want to be able to say you went above and beyond current protocols, were sensitive to your co-parent’s concerns, respectful in communication, and putting your child’s best interests above your own even if it cost you additional money. Sorry, it sucks, but judges don’t ride buses and don’t know why some people have to.
              Agree with this.

              Do you have to take public transit for access visits? do you have access to a car?

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't know of anyone in this situation who *chooses* to take public transportation, if they have some access to a vehicle they have, or can easily borrow instead, especially in TO. So I'm assuming public transportation is necessary here. Wearing masks, and the precautions already taken by TTC, is responsible.



                Did Mom offer an alternative? To drive child to you instead? What does she use when child needs to go anywhere, or even herself? If she has a vehicle, why can't she use that to facilitate child's parent time? If she doesn't have her own vehicle, then she's in same situation as you.



                Document your intention via email or text, to continue your access, and ask her what suitable alternatives she would be comfortable with? I'm guessing she offers none, and that there is already conflict here, despite COVID or not.


                People say "you'll hear from my lawyer" alot. People hear from said lawyers less often. If this was me, I would seek a motion if denied access in this manner. Wearing masks, and taking public transportation once a week, to facilitate child's parenting time, is extremely low risk. The "bus driver" example thrown out there, is not even relatable, as that is someone doing the job among the public, for hours, every day.


                Just make sure, you are not dismissing COVID in other ways, that she can use as examples.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Am I the only one that thinks that is over the top?? Ya maybe if mom had contacted him as a normal human being and said hey, really concerned about public transit, can we figure out a different option/maybe I can provide transportation until everything cools down? But no, she went straight for the jugular- withholding visits.
                  As long as the OP
                  A) Is only using public transit for necessary travel, and;
                  B ) Has already communicated to the mom the use of masks/other precautions he is taking with his child while on public transit

                  Then I don’t see why he needs to justify her threats with a response.

                  I think it is also important to note that I could only find 2 cases on Canlii pertaining to COVID and public transportation orders (I may have missed some but this is what I found)


                  https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=3

                  https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=7

                  Both orders were heard in March/April when everything was closing down. We are now well into the reopening stages. The first case the judge did order no public transit, but that was more so in response to the father’s brilliant idea to fly his kids out to Whistler for a vacation and take public buses everywhere- after lying to the mom and telling her they were staying in Ontario.

                  In the second case both parents brought the Justice a proposal- both of their proposals involved no more use of public transit and ideas for alternatives available to them. The justice accepted the one proposal and put it into an order (and the mom wasn’t denying access in this one, just wanted to modify it so there wasn’t so much back and forth) Another interesting side note on that case.... he was using public transit because FRO had suspended his license.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Selfrepmom View Post
                    Am I the only one that thinks that is over the top??

                    It is definitely over the top. I'm willing to bet access has been denied before too in the past, prior to COVID even being on the radar.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dad2bandm View Post
                      It is definitely over the top. I'm willing to bet access has been denied before too in the past, prior to COVID even being on the radar.
                      Considering dad says he only has an interim order for access atm, sounds like they’re right in the thick of litigation. So ya, I’m guessing things have been a bit heated lately

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the point that tilt and I are trying to make is that during covid- not "dignifying" the other parent's "outrageous conduct" by not replying might not be the best option.

                        Note- we're only getting what the OP is telling us of the situation. Like- was it agreed before that transit is out of the question? How long and what type of transit was taken? was it necessary? Were other options available? I know a lot of people who are not taking public transit unless absolutely necessary. As in for work. My cousins live downtown with their two very young kids (6months and 2years)- and no car. This is by choice (no car). However, during Covid- they've been relying on family members to get them to and from appointments for the kids. Mom only started using TTC because she had to go back to work. The kids only go where their little legs or strollers can take them....or where a family member is willing to drive them (IFF absolutely necessary- e.g. doctor's appointment for the baby).

                        Is cutting off access extreme and completely unwise? probably. Do we know the circumstance and can speculate on why mom is making that threat? nope.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As a parent, is your goal to “right”, or is it to parent your child?

                          Yup her requests were unreasonable and the way she write them was clearly NOT in the best interest of the child. But, I bet it was also a (sub)conscious way of provoking you, pushing your buttons, and making you react in an emotional, rather than logical, way. Judges see this shit all the time - two parents escalating petty things into motions - and they are not impressed, nor do they care who started it.

                          If you are in active litigation you want to be 100% focused on your child and what is in their best interest. Maximizing parental time, safety, prioritising long term over short term planning, collaboration, respectful communication, non-judgemental towards the other parent ... this are all the qualities the judge will be looking at when deciding parenting time and decision-making. Let the ex shoot herself in the foot for a short term goal while you look at the big picture. Honestly, she is just making you look good.

                          In your response you can say you disagree with her stance, but in the interest of placating her and ensuring you have the parenting time you are looking forward to, you have taken these steps... and list them off. If you comply with her request and show up next weekend with a car (can you rent one?), let her twist herself into knots trying to find another reason to deny you. Remember, your long term goal is showing you are the calm parent who would never dream of denying the other parent parenting time.
                          Last edited by tilt; 07-29-2020, 08:52 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you so very much to all!!!!!!!!!

                            I will answer a bit later or tomorrow am but you all helped me so much to work through this in a perfect way!

                            Thank you and I will respond more later.

                            You guys and gals really helped me see things clear

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you all again, so much as each and every comment t is so very appreciated!

                              I used the words of Tilt ( thank you, thank you , thank you!) andbasically said that I did not agree with her stance etc and respecting her wishes I would not take him back on the TTC until she was comfortable.

                              Lawyer came back and said that the visit was on but gave me 9 new conditions about access that I need to agree to , stating that I already had but need to confirm.

                              I did not agree to those 9 conditions which were part of her offer after she ceased access once Covid started.

                              Conditions like cannot go to a park, no family members who do not live with me.

                              All conditions from her early Covid position but not even relevant now.

                              She had withheld the child for 75 days during the start of Covid, and this was an offer that was never agreed to because she changed the court order from a weekend d to a weekday, which I cannot do, due to work.

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X