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This is outrageous, forget what the judge ruled - how can a father not want his infant to receive the best possible care?
The article mentions a no contact order between litigants so I am supposing there had to be some kind of DV/cruelty issues going on.
As to the lawyer who went forth with this action ... shameful truly shameful. It boggles the mind that the court would even hear this in the first place. If simple logic prevailed in this case - shared custody could have included an appropriate time when infant could accept formula rather than natural milk?
This ruling creates a dangerous precedent, what's next? prenatal joint custody?
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the father has every right to have his child on weekends. If she cannot/will not pump then formula is the way to go. Lots of kids do quite well on formula.
What about father/child bonding etc? This so called mother is trying to use the breastfeeding arguement to cut the father out.
Why hasnt the two year old been seeing the father on the weekends as per the custody arrangement that already is in place??
Janibel are you jumping to conclusions that there maybe DV or whatever against the father? The cause of the no contact order could be because of something the mother did.
The mother should not be standing in the way of the father bonding with his kids and his parenting time.
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Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
Janibel are you jumping to conclusions that there maybe DV or whatever against the father? The cause of the no contact order could be because of something the mother did.
I totally agree that a father has the right to 50/50 custody, but surely the rights of the infant come first? Do you think that kiddo will need b/milk for another 10 years? Without getting all technical, some woman cannot use pumps for whatever reasons ... Daddy should think of the baby's health instead of his hurt pride.
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Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Postthe father has every right to have his child on weekends. If she cannot/will not pump then formula is the way to go. Lots of kids do quite well on formula.
In addition, I agree that pumping would be an excellent alternative and if the breastfeeding is being done in the "best interests" of the child then the mother can simply on the weekend pump the breast milk and freeze it. My recommendation would be to freeze it in ice cube trays as it roughly measures to an ounce. The mother than can provide the frozen breast milk to the father and it should be ample to support the child's needs while on the weekend access visits with the father.
Pumping if done properly can continue on the same feeding cycle and the milk can be frozen.
In the alternative the father can leverage a milk bank in the area to obtain breastmilk. There are a few breast milk banks in Canada where mothers continue to pump and provide breast milk for other children. If the real root of the "need" for the child is breast milk there are many alternatives.
No children starve to death (to the best of my knowledge) if a mother is unable to breastfeed in the country of Canada. So, the argument that only specifically this mother's milk coming from her breast is a poor argument in my opinion. Mother's die unfortunately given birth and are unable to get breast milk... They still are fed, grow up and become adults.
Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View PostWhat about father/child bonding etc? This so called mother is trying to use the breastfeeding arguement to cut the father out.
Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View PostJanibel are you jumping to conclusions that there maybe DV or whatever against the father? The cause of the no contact order could be because of something the mother did.
Considering that this matter, which is not even posted to CanLII has become public knowledge through the media is concerning. Clearly the mother, whom is photographed in the article, contacted the media to share the story. My recommendation to the father would be to bring a motion on an urgent basis seeking protection for the children's identities in this matter and that the media be banned from reporting the names of the children and party. It would be quite easy to get this put in place considering the very relevant evidence of this article in the public media. As well as the fact that a public citizen found it and posted it to this very forum.
Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View PostThe mother should not be standing in the way of the father bonding with his kids and his parenting time.
Good Luck!
Tayken
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"I'm not handing him over," she told CBC News. "I don't care if I have to go to jail."
On top of that, she said the boy has been doing a lot of cluster feeding and she loves the bonding.
This mom should be ashamed of herself and I hope the judge does do something to enforce his order, especially now that's it's gone public in the news.
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Originally posted by Janibel View PostThis is outrageous, forget what the judge ruled - how can a father not want his infant to receive the best possible care?
Why is the child residing with the father and being bottle fed not the "best possible care"?
Originally posted by Janibel View PostThe article mentions a no contact order between litigants so I am supposing there had to be some kind of DV/cruelty issues going on.
Originally posted by Janibel View PostAs to the lawyer who went forth with this action ... shameful truly shameful.
It would be shameful if lawyers refused to take the father on as a client and against their code of conduct.
Originally posted by Janibel View PostIt boggles the mind that the court would even hear this in the first place.
The tender years doctrine is no longer around. Both parents are equal caregivers and the "best interests" - not the age of children - determine custody and access.
Originally posted by Janibel View PostThis ruling creates a dangerous precedent, what's next? prenatal joint custody?
Good Luck!
Tayken
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Originally posted by blinkandimgone View PostSo send her to jail, problem solved. She's clearly willing to give up breastfeeding and caring for both of her children to be there.
In fact, one would have to consider the quote from a justice recently in context to the comments being made by other posters...
Ms. Scrivo has argued that Mr. Scrivo needs to make an effort. It is ironic that she does not notice that he brought a trial for access to occur and has had five court attendances to make the access materialize..
Originally posted by blinkandimgone View PostThis mom should be ashamed of herself and I hope the judge does do something to enforce his order, especially now that's it's gone public in the news.
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...tml#post143013
Good Luck!
Tayken
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Originally posted by Tayken View PostExcellent observations. In fact, I suspect that formula and cows milk was the liquid of choice that many of the adult posters were fed as a child themselves. The recent and modern lactivist have a poor argument in my opinion as generations of non-breastfed children exist in North America (Canada) and have grown up to be successful and productive adults.
I am not saying that the dad shouldn't have time. He needs time to bond as well and should have parenting time with his kids.
But to leverage the argument that something is okay because people did it for years and turned out fine, is ridiculous and simplified. I am surprised at you Tayken. Usually your arguments are better thought out.
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Originally posted by Janibel View PostI'm sorry, but you are the one jumping to conclusions, I did not say that it was the father who was responsible for the no contact order - I simply stated that it existed between them, making matters more difficult. Please re-read my comments.
I totally agree that a father has the right to 50/50 custody, but surely the rights of the infant come first? Do you think that kiddo will need b/milk for another 10 years? Without getting all technical, some woman cannot use pumps for whatever reasons ... Daddy should think of the baby's health instead of his hurt pride.
The father is thinking of the childs needs of being with their father on a regular basis. Who says his pride is hurt??? He wants to parent his child and if he needed to take her to court to do it then so be it. What she is doing is wrong and doing harm to the father child bonding process.
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Originally posted by SadAndTired View PostThis argument has no merit at all. Many women drank and smoke during pregnancy in the past too. Does that mean it is in the best interest of the child? No.
I am not saying that the dad shouldn't have time. He needs time to bond as well and should have parenting time with his kids.
But to leverage the argument that something is okay because people did it for years and turned out fine, is ridiculous and simplified. I am surprised at you Tayken. Usually your arguments are better thought out.
You cannot compare smoking during pregnancy - which is not illegal and does not result in court action - with what would be in essence court-ordered breastfeeding.
We do not have the courts or the government impose strict nutritional requirements on 2 year olds, 5 year olds, or 10 year olds. It may be "better" to feed children organic soy milk and brown rice burgers, but we do not legislate that or have case law supporting it. Neither should we have case law or legislation that would essentially require breastfeeding.
We do not apprehend bottle-fed babies on the grounds of child endangerment or malnutrition. We should not keep these babies from their fathers just becasue a mother refuses to allow bottle feeding for 2 days a week.
The best interest of the child is not a single way of childrearing that is carved in granite. It is a broad spectrum that can include breastmilk, or formula or a combination, just as it can support home-schooling, private tutors, or general public education. It is black and white, and thinking that breastfeeding is the only option that should be supported by the courts is black and white thinking.
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Brent Barilla, a family law lawyer in Saskatoon, isn't involved in this case but has dealt with similar ones. In more than 20 years practising law, he said he can't remember an outcome like this.
"I can't even recall a time where the court hasn't sort of gone out of its way to make sure that they respect that decision on the part of the mother and what that means to the child and work around that," he said.
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Originally posted by Mess View PostThere is no merit in your argument either.
You cannot compare smoking during pregnancy - which is not illegal and does not result in court action - with what would be in essence court-ordered breastfeeding.................It is black and white, and thinking that breastfeeding is the only option that should be supported by the courts is black and white thinking.
What I said was Tayken saying because everyone did it for years and turned out fine is a lame argument without merit. Do you think that the courts should make rulings based on that? Guess the tender years doctrine shouldn't have been overturned? People used it for years.
So much for science based medicine....... many people did it and turned out fine. It must be okay!
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Originally posted by blinkandimgone View PostI'm sure the courts also took into consideration what would happen if mom were unavailable due to illness, death or in this case incarceration.
If dad was an only parent, the baby would be bottle fed and nobody would take issue with it.
The mom doesn't want to give the baby to dad. I get it. I would have found it really, really hard too with a baby that small. It takes a lot to be able to put aside your own feelings/emotions/conflict and let your child have a great relationship with the other parent.
But unfortunately the mom in the article lost a bit of my respect when she said she was willing to go to jail instead of letting dad see his baby. Really?? How does that help her baby at all?? At that moment, she showed her hand that it is about her controlling the situation instead of about breastfeeding her baby. She certainly can't do that from jail....Last edited by SadAndTired; 07-20-2013, 12:21 PM.
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