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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    Could you give some examples of "sacrifices" that were made and why a joint and equal parent cannot be an equal income earner too? Just as they are "equal parents"?

    If we are going to discuss equality... Then it should be equal on all levels in my opinion but, I am taking the humanist perspective on the argument in the purest form of what defines "equality" in the role of parents.
    The decisions both of us made while we were married impact his income earning level and mine. I will never make an income equal to his. It does not mean I don't support our children, offset is in place.

    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    Why are you not "attempting to increase my (your) income"? Now, this may not be an appropriate question as you may not be a full joint custodial parent with equal 50-50 access. I again point out that the discussion in this thread is about equal residential parents (equal access) on a 50-50 basis. Not, sole custodial and majority access parents...
    I didn't say I wasn't attempting to increase my income. But describing anyone who accepts support in a 50/50 situation as relying on handouts and a poor role model for the children, is, in my opinion ridiculous reasoning.

    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    If you want to be a role model in a 50-50 situation, then be an equal parent and equal contributor to the children's emotional, physical and financial needs. In a 50-50 access schedule both parents have equal time with the children and equal opportunity to use their down-time from the children to improve their skills and employment opportunities. It isn't like either one of them has to be with the children all the time... It is 50-50.
    Who gets to define if I or my ex. contribute equally to the children's emotional and physical needs? Because if I get to make that call, I would say he fails. So is he a role model in a 50/50 situation because he contributes more financially? That makes him an equal parent?

    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    We can simply agree to disagree on this one.

    Good Luck!
    Tayken
    Yeah, I disagree.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by stripes View Post
      I have a separate email address that I use only for his messages, so it doesn't get mixed up with my real life. I check it once a day, which is surely the highlight of most days. I do read the crazynastygrams because, as you say, there's the occasional nugget of child-related information buried somewhere. QUOTE]
      I read my exs. e-mails in the morning. That way I could get some sleep.

      At one point he started putting "without predjudice" in the subject line. At the time, I thought , what an ass, thinks he's a lawyer!

      Comment


      • #18
        Ha! We really did marry the same genius! They sure do love the big lawyer lingo.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
          The decisions both of us made while we were married impact his income earning level and mine. I will never make an income equal to his. It does not mean I don't support our children, offset is in place.
          But, one would question possibly why there is 50-50 access schedule then if you were say a "stay at home parent"?

          Why could you "never make an income equal to his"? You are intelligent from what I can tell in your postings. So, what is holding you back from making equal or even more than the other parent? You may not be able to do it in the immediate but, with 50% of your time not occupied you do have the opportunity to train for a new career, etc...

          Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
          I didn't say I wasn't attempting to increase my income. But describing anyone who accepts support in a 50/50 situation as relying on handouts and a poor role model for the children, is, in my opinion ridiculous reasoning.
          You actually did say that as I quoted you directly. You may not have "meant" what you said.

          You may feel it is ridiculous reasoning but, I am premising my argument that equality should extend to all aspects of "shared parenting". Even financial responsibility. But, it may be difficult to discuss this topic as you obviously feel you are being targeted by my statement. Clearly my statements have touched a nerve and you have taken them personally.

          Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
          Who gets to define if I or my ex. contribute equally to the children's emotional and physical needs?
          Well, if you are a full joint custodial parent with 50-50 access... You defined that you are "equal" parents. You either did this by agreement or a court did it for you on an order.

          If the 50-50 access and joint custody was the result of an order on a motion or trial it does bring to light why someone would think they are nothing more (or less) of a joint custodial parent and equal access parent.

          As well, society has an expectation (as does the court) that the best interests of children is best served by joint custody and equal access ("shared parenting").

          Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
          Because if I get to make that call, I would say he fails.
          That is your personal opinion of the track record of the other parent. But, either an agreement or court order is in place for 50-50 equal access and joint custody. So, despite your "feelings" that "he fails" he is recognized by an agreement as an equal parent with equal access. This is despite your feelings that "he fails" as a parent.

          Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
          So is he a role model in a 50/50 situation because he contributes more financially? That makes him an equal parent?
          Actually, the other parent is a role model because they contribute equally emotionally and physically to the children's well being and they contribute more financially to the children's well being. Not only can this parent "be a parent" they can be one that also earns a larger income. All while having the equal and same responsibility to meet the emotional and physical needs of the children. In my opinion it speaks volumes to this parent's abilities... Furthermore, if the other parent was truly a "failure" then they wouldn't be a joint custodial parent with equal access...

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
            I read my exs. e-mails in the morning. That way I could get some sleep.

            At one point he started putting "without predjudice" in the subject line. At the time, I thought , what an ass, thinks he's a lawyer!
            Actually, that is common to do. You don't need to be registered with the Law Society of Upper Canada to mark correspondence "WITH PREJUDICE". Especially if you are an unrepresented litigant.

            Unrepresented litigants are expected to know the law, represent their position and conduct themselves under the same Rules and expectations that a barrister and solicitor have. In fact, an unrepresented litigant such as WorkingDad is more deadly than a lawyer could be as they know the content of the file better. The biggest gap for many unrepresented litigants is the knowledge and application of law. But, as we have seen with WorkingDad's case if you understand the Rules just as well (or possibly better) than a lawyer you don't need a law degree to get through family court.

            In fact, when someone improperly marks correspondence with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" you should thank them quietly for it... Because if it is truly filled with nonsense and you attach it to an affidavit as evidence... They can't have it removed because they didn't know what "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" means...

            Good Luck!
            Tayken

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Qrious View Post
              When I receive a few more misspelled, grammatically incorrect and openly hostile communications to follow, I know I have been especially successful.
              I was wondering if you could share some of the "openly hostile" words that the other parent in your situation uses? The reason I ask is that I have been studying what defines "hostility" in written communications and if the words themselves track as "hostile" or if it is possibly the emotional filter that people apply to the content that generates their belief that the content is hostile.

              Specifically, I am curious as the tool Our Family Wizard provides an additional service "ToneMeter" which provides a real-time analysis of the "tone" of written communications.

              ToneMeter - Our Family Wizard - child custody, parenting time

              Which is built on the Lymbix system.

              Lymbix Sentiment Analysis Reinvented

              Lymbix's ToneCheck pre-screens the tone of your emails | VentureBeat

              I find their software facinating for a few reasons, one of them being that they are a Canadian company (Lymbix) and the application in other areas in family law. (For example the analysis of written affidavit materials and court applications.)

              Good Luck!
              Tayken

              Comment


              • #22
                Not sure about "Stripes", but here is a smattering of recent examples from my ex's communications to me;

                "what's wrong with you!"
                "I'm done with your bullshit!"
                "You crazy ass man!"
                "Ur crazy!"
                "you aren't a very good role model at all for <childname>!"
                "You really are a moron!"

                The emails usually contain a lot of exclamation marks. I consider these "hostile" communications. The "tone-meter" would likely start flashing red, with a siren, if I fed it, emails from my ex. The voice-mails when she has left them, are usually worse.

                Comment


                • #23
                  "what's wrong with you!"
                  "I'm done with your bullshit!"
                  "You crazy ass man!"
                  "Ur crazy!"
                  "you aren't a very good role model at all for <childname>!"
                  "You really are a moron!"
                  I would forward each one of those to the ex's lawyer, and send a final email that says something along the lines of:

                  Please advise your client to stop sending me harassing, frivilous and vexatious messages. Unless there is an issue that directly pertains to the children, or to the settlement of the outstanding issues before the court, I would ask that your client refrain from contact in this manner.

                  If this behavior persists I will govern myself accordingly.

                  Respectfully,

                  $me

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by dad2bandm View Post
                    Not sure about "Stripes", but here is a smattering of recent examples from my ex's communications to me;

                    "what's wrong with you!"
                    "I'm done with your bullshit!"
                    "You crazy ass man!"
                    "Ur crazy!"
                    "you aren't a very good role model at all for <childname>!"
                    "You really are a moron!"

                    The emails usually contain a lot of exclamation marks. I consider these "hostile" communications. The "tone-meter" would likely start flashing red, with a siren, if I fed it, emails from my ex. The voice-mails when she has left them, are usually worse.
                    Actually, dad2bandm, having run this through tonemeter just now, I can confirm that it does indeed turn red. I had to put all those statements into a fluid statement to really get the system to react. But, if you just cut and paste the quotes as is, you get a big red bar. If you structure it into a conversation it gives you even a larger red bar.

                    These are all excellent examples of truly "hostile" communications. Most of the common scores on these statements were "upsetting" and "aggressive" that were produced from ToneMeter.

                    Aggression being the key element to identifying "hostility" in communications.

                    Thank-you for providing the sample data. They are very similar to the other samples I have collected form high-conflict family law matters when I pull court records.

                    Common hostile-like words and statements that I often see are statements that the other parent is "immature", "a bad parent", and pretty much align to everything you provided as an example.

                    I am trying to narrow down the most common hostile statements to something similar to George Carlan's seven dirty words. But, more of a "seven hostile statements made by highly conflicted parents".

                    By the way there doesn't seem to be any relationship to gender or sexual orientation on who does this "more often". It is quite equal. Most times, what you see in the review of the court files is that one party is often more hostile and the other party is defensive in nature.

                    Some times though, what you see is two people who have are both equally embroiled in the nonsense.

                    Mostly, it is easy to identify the highly-conflicted party. Generally they are the ones who try to leverage evidence prior to having children, make generalized statements of "fearing" the other party without evidence and verbally assault the other parent's character.

                    Also, a tell tail sign is when the party involved in the matter is the applicant and starts it all off on an "emergency" ex party motion before the courts...

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken
                    Last edited by Tayken; 05-30-2013, 09:36 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                      I would forward each one of those to the ex's lawyer, and send a final email that says something along the lines of:

                      Please advise your client to stop sending me harassing, frivilous and vexatious messages. Unless there is an issue that directly pertains to the children, or to the settlement of the outstanding issues before the court, I would ask that your client refrain from contact in this manner.

                      If this behavior persists I will govern myself accordingly.

                      Respectfully,

                      $me
                      Actually, this is very good advice and structured quite well. Often, when a lawyer gets exposure to the true nature of their client they will either defend the statements made by their client (negative advocate lawyer), silently give their client some advice and not respond (positive advocate lawyer) and in the rare cases of a true professional will respond and apologize for the conduct of their client (a truly positive advocate lawyer).

                      If you have a combination of a parent who makes such statements and a lawyer to endorses and defends them... You are dealing with the stupid and crooked negative advocate lawyer problem. Settlement will be nearly impossible in a situation like this without court intervention in my personal opinion.

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tayken View Post

                        These are all excellent examples of truly "hostile" communications. Most of the common scores on these statements were "upsetting" and "aggressive" that were produced from ToneMeter...
                        ...
                        Thank-you for providing the sample data. They are very similar to the other samples I have collected form high-conflict family law matters when I pull court records...
                        No problem. I have reams of these "examples".

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Actually, this is very good advice and structured quite well... Often, when a lawyer gets exposure to the true nature of their client they will either defend the statements made by their client (negative advocate lawyer)...
                          In my particular situation, we have a final order already (for some time), so we are not "active" before the court right now...right now anyway. So I just ignore the statements.

                          If we were active before the court, then I would use this suggestion, as I think it's a good idea.

                          Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the original poster's thread. :-)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I don't really feeling trawling through ex's missives to pull out complete sentences, but from the last few weeks, here are some of the words used I remember to describe me (before the recent turn to patronizing and passive-aggressive):

                            "belligerent" (spelled three different ways), "creepy", "sick", "disgusting, "aggressive", "playing cute games", "completely full of bullshit", "hiding [my] hostility behind a false front of reasonableness", "pissing [him] off", "deliberately invading [his] life'", "destructive".

                            ... and on it goes. That's the overtly angry stuff - there's also the vague threats, beginning with phrases like "you leave me no choice but to ...". The only responses from my end were statements that I would not read or respond to emails that were either vulgar or insulting.

                            One thing I noticed was that he's recently started referring to me as "high conflict" and going on and on about how he needs to protect himself from "high conflict persons" like me. This in the midst of volleys of insults and rants from his end. I can only imagine what this would look like to a lawyer or judge. I can assure you that I'm extremely careful with my communications and actions.

                            I'm guessing "high conflict" has become a buzzword detached from any actual behaviors, and is now being used just to mean "a person who won't give me what I want".

                            It would be very interesting to do a thematic analysis and come up with a "seven statements from hostile exes" typology.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              In an email, I have, "once a ##### always a #####."

                              He actually used the pound signs, not that he's above actually saying the words to me, but he must have known better than to put it fully in writing.

                              Also, "You are who you are." (I took this as a compliment because I happen to like who I am)

                              And when I emailed and asked him to stop calling me down to our son through text message (that I had copies of), I got, "F... off. He knows what you are like..."

                              I've had a LOT worse to my face, but he's a little more careful about what he puts in writing. I have phone message recordings that would peel the paint off a new car.

                              Oops - forgot - controlling, mentally unstable....

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by stripes View Post
                                ... "you leave me no choice but to ...".
                                This was a phrase my ex. also used when he wasn't getting what he wanted.

                                Comment

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