Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce Support

Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:12 PM
StevenS StevenS is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 5
StevenS is on a distinguished road
Cool Does Anyone Have Experience With Legal Templates?

I am curious about buying divorce templates online. Has anyone tried? I saw three companies that look good.

www.legalzoom.com
https://www.avvo.com/
https://almu.ca/

I would rather spend as little money on online divorce as possible.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-07-2020, 05:29 PM
Kinso Kinso is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 249
Kinso is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
I would rather spend as little money on online divorce as possible
Funny how no one wants to spend a lot of money.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:55 PM
UnderPressure UnderPressure is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 22
UnderPressure is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenS View Post
I would rather spend as little money on online divorce as possible.
/narrator “And that was to be their undoing”
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-17-2020, 03:45 PM
rollingesto rollingesto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 37
rollingesto is on a distinguished road
Default

I didn't use templates but used a service to get it done (as sole/uncontested). They took care of all the filings etc and it cost me around $500 (?) plus court filing fees. Done from start to finish in a couple months. Well worth it IMO!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-17-2020, 06:26 PM
UnderPressure UnderPressure is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 22
UnderPressure is on a distinguished road
Default

Glad it worked out for you. With children and significant assets it’s not something I am comfortable doing on my own. Plus spouse is already lawyered up so that isn’t happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:56 PM
rollingesto rollingesto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 37
rollingesto is on a distinguished road
Default

Luckily for me the kids were both >18 and the assets were not contested. We both had given up on our lawyers....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:09 AM
Kinso Kinso is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 249
Kinso is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

The complicated/expensive part isn't the documentation, it's negotiating or establishing the terms of separation.

Once an agreement is made, I can draft a Separation Agreement in an hour (all lawyers rely on templates). Maybe 2-3 if it's unusually complex. An uncontested divorce is also fairly simple. There are many websites or resources online telling you exactly how to do them, including the Government of Ontario's online filing service. $500+fees is about what my law firm would charge for an uncontested divorce (assuming no complications).

OP (and those reading this forum), even if your ex signs a properly worded template from the internet, without financial disclosure and independent legal advice, the agreement is of questionable legal value. Courts can set these agreements aside (aka throw them in the trash) due to failure to disclose asserts/income or because the signatory did not have independent legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-04-2020, 10:39 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,148
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
OP (and those reading this forum), even if your ex signs a properly worded template from the internet, without financial disclosure and independent legal advice, the agreement is of questionable legal value. Courts can set these agreements aside (aka throw them in the trash) due to failure to disclose asserts/income or because the signatory did not have independent legal advice.
I am going to expand on Kinso's excellent advice here with some additional "warning" about online resources.

Templates have very little value if you do not understand the terms both parties are agreeing to. This is a KEY service that is delivered by legal counsel that no template can provide properly.

The majority of separations are over-the-table agreements that never get filed or followed because both parents are reasonable. This is how it should be. Parents need to be reasonable... Even more reasonable when separating when kids are involved.

Where the chat 22 happens is when one (or both) parents disagree on the content of the agreement. Or when they go to file for a divorce and attach the table-top agreement to their paperwork and a judge rejects it.

As well, a judge can only enforce reasonable elements of the agreement that are properly worded. If a judge needs a roulette wheel, dart board, Ouija Board and a Magic 8 Ball to figure out your agreement its garbage and will be tossed.

First Right of Refusal (FRR) clauses are excellent examples where voodoo is required and are often thrown out by judges.

What a lawyer brings to the table is a wealth of knowledge of what a "judge" would be willing to and can enforce! As stated by Kinso doing an "agreement" doesn't take long... Getting to the simple language and agreement (or order) is the hard part.

My rules on agreements:

1. Written so a grade 8 educated person and read it and understand it.
2. What is agreed to is legally allowed. (For example, you can't put your own police enforcement clause into a table-top agreement.)
3. If children are involved it needs a proper access schedule and clearly define custody and how decisions are made.

There is an interesting software engineering "anti-pattern" that applies to legal templates. It is called "cut-and-paste programming".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy-a...te_programming

https://sourcemaking.com/antipattern...te-programming

Basically, software developers who don't understand the software language will often seek out "examples" and cut-and-paste them together to arrive at what they think the solution is... Trying to develop a legal agreement in the similar anti-pattern results in the same issues.

There are a lot of anti-patterns that "self represented" litigants do to avoid costs which just increases their costs (personal frustration and $$$). Don't cut-and-paste what you don't understand.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 08-04-2020 at 10:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
divorce, online templates


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with legal aid lawyer malvina Divorce & Family Law 7 04-13-2011 09:23 PM
Line 232 of Income Tax Return - Deducting Legal Fees #1StepMom Financial Issues 3 02-22-2010 06:58 PM
Income Tax and Lawyers Fees stressedby-X Financial Issues 8 02-16-2010 05:44 AM
Interesting Recent Cost Award and legal Aid logicalvelocity Divorce & Family Law 0 05-03-2008 03:43 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 AM.