spousal support and child support

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

I would first take an inventory of assets and their value at time of separation - this would most definitely include the house, cars, RRSP, etc. Then determine the debts - mortgage, car loans, etc. I would think the court would want to "award" her half of the increase in value of any of the assets. For example, if the house value increased by $50,000 in the time you were living together, then she may be entitled to $25,000.

I would like to add to this, as it is party true, but not complete.

Indeed they determine the appreciation, BUT they also subtract the mortgage. She is after all responsible for half the mortgage. Using your example, say the appreciation is $50,000, but you still owe $80,000 on the mortgage.
Then they would take the $50,000 - $80,000 = -$30,000 (of debt) and her share of the debt is $15,000.
If the mortgage is less than the appreciation, then she would be entitled to half of what was left. Appreciation is $75,000 - $50,000 mortgage = $25, 000 asset and she is entitled to $12,500. These scenarios are both under the assumption they both contributed equally to the purchase of the home and hold equal equity to the same.
Some forget that sure both are entitled to assets, but both are also responsible for half the debts. They incurred the assets together, and they incurred the debts together, and one should not get off scot free on the debt side.

I don't think the court looks at payment of utilities, etc. to keep the house going as you'd have to make these payments even if she weren't living in the house. And asking her to pay half could be shown as your not wanting her to leave.

What about the fact that if she wasn't there, sure he's be paying the costs to keep the house, but she would have rent and her own utilities which apparently she is not paying in this case, so in essence he is paying her support, = to the cost of the mortgage she is not paying plus utilities and food that she is not paying. If she was out the door, she'd have all of these expenses, and it's worth the effort to bring this up, and maybe you'll get a judge that agrees.


I'm just offering another point of view to ponder.

FL

[bryan]

I am just very frustrated. It is very stressful living with someone u have ended a relationship with. I want to move on with my life and she is stalling and stalling. I cant sell the house until she agrees as she is half owner, but she wants more money than 1) i can afford to give and 2) more than i know she is entitled to. She thinks there is some pot of gold here and there is not. I pay child support and have to live my life and she wants me to pay for hers as well. She has known since September we were through and yet she hasnt tried to procur better employment. It looks more and more like going to court is the only option and i dread the legal fees.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

Do yourself a favour, take a breather!
Do something just because!
Do something that is fun that you haven't done in a while!

Then take a few deep breaths, then look at the issues and categorize them.
We’ve all been in your shoes at some point to some degree, and a lot of us are still walking in those very same shoes. If you let things get to you, and that’s easier said then done, (I know), you’ll not be doing yourself any favours.

Keep a cool head, address the issues as they come up, and if this ends up in court, so be it, just take one day at a time. Remember your actions are under a microscope now, and anything you say and do can come back to bite you. Don’t give anyone that satisfaction.
Be the level headed one in this, it’ll make you feel better about yourself, and it’ll piss her off. If she gets all worked up about how you are handling things she’ll look bad while you won’t. Another point for you!

Best of luck.

FL

[bryan]

My situation is frustrating the heck out of me. I sent her an offer from a lawyer over 2 months ago. I have been waiting patiently for a response from her lawyer. Finally got fed up of not hearing anything and asked her about it last night why her lawyer hasnt responded. She said she hasnt got back to her lawyer yet. She does not want to split up and says she has nowhere to go. She had originally planned to move in with her mother. Bottom line is do i have any recourse to force this situation. Both of our names are on the mortgage. I have not wanted to be a creep but i told her in November our relationship was over and have been very patient giving her time to accept, and she still hasnt. She is very comfortable and doesnt want to move. I pay all the bills and keep a roof over her head so why would she want to move? Am i stuck here the rest of my life because she doesnt want to move on. Does anyone have any advice for me. I am so tired of living in this stressful situation.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

The longer you "let" this situation play out the worse it "could" be.
Obviously the wait and see approach does not work on her.

It's time to make some tough decisions or you will be in this vicious cycle for a long time.
You may have no choice but to seek legal advice and proceed to court to force her out or force the sale so that you and your child can have a stable life. Focus on the best interest of the child involved even if it isn’t hers, the child is still in the middle and deserves a better standard of living.
This is “not” healthy for anyone.


This is CL, she has no entitlement unless she can prove it.
Is her name on the ownership?
If not, proceed to court and have her evicted, I feel she does not have a leg to stand on and that is why "she" has not proceeded to court, and why, as long as you allow it, she will stay right where she is. Why not, the bills are paid and she has no commitment or responsibilities.
Time to make the tough decisions.

[singledad99]

bryan, what you are experiencing is the story of every guy out there. The system is twisted and biased heavily towards females (no offense to anyone especially to all those good women out there). I have our son with me, have mortgage, car, loans, utilities and a whole list of expenses plus lawyers fees. I am negative in my financials. When I went in for case conference, the judge was only looking at my income and not the expenses at all. When I pointed out that I had mortgage and all other expenses, she said that I should then change my life style and perhaps move if I couldn't pay mortgage after paying the support. Seeing this open discrimination, my ex increased her support claim and I ended up consenting to that in order to avoid legal costs of defending the motion.

I have a lot more to add to this story.

The bottom line is, don't get frustrated and don't ever lose your temper. I found some herbal suppliments at the nutrition store that helped me improve my general health. I have always remained calm and I know my calmness is bothering my ex, her lawyer and the whole support group around her. I am learning that best revenge is to live well.

My own opinion is that you should go to court and ask for 1/2 of the mortgage and other expenses that you are paying while she has been living in the house after separation. Don't forget to ask for exclusive possession of the house too. She is not going to court because she knows she is going to lose. Don't use wait and see approach. Be proactive and take control.

[bryan]

Basically, my lawyer told me it if virtually impossible to force someone to sell the share of their home. We are both owners of the home. She is a full owner as I am, and she works, she just doesnt want to end things or move on. He said i can use pressure tactics like not pay the hydro etc..
My daughter got into some trouble and is not in school right now, so i think she is hoping i wont be paying child support anymore, but until she is eighteen and out of school i am paying my support. She is not concerned about my daughter, she just keeps asking if she is in school hoping i wont be paying support so she can get more money from me.

I told her she is taking advantage of a system designed for women who had to sacrifice their jobs and time for the kids in a relationship and she just scoffed and said too bad, thats the way it is. She is what gives women bad reputations when it comes to this stuff.

Does anyone know of anyone in this situation and what they were able to do to move it along.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

If she is unwilling to sell her share in the home to you, have you considered selling your share to her? I know you may have a lot invested, but think about it, is it worth the emotional aguish?
She seems to be a very controlling person, and having 1/2 ownership in the home and not wanting to sell seems to me her way of controlling you.

I know you want to move on, and from your posts she's holding her ground, maybe you need to sell your share to her, stop paying the bills and take this to court as soon as possible so that you are not farther in debt because of her lack of consideration.

I think that that longer you take to find an end to this relationship the worse off you will be, and not only financially. This is taking an emotional toll on you, and because she won't budge, you should consider other options to get out of things with her.

Just something to think about in the interim.

[bryan]

Well her lawyer finally got back to me and i cant believe what they are asking for!!! She wants 560 a month for 6 years plus she wants me to keep her on as a dependant for health benefits plus they want me to have life insurance in the event of my death so i can continue paying her support payments. Is this feasible this amount! They also didnt include my child support payments in their calculations and she lowered her income from 32k to 27k.

I am flabberghasted that she thinks she wants this much. Basically, it is 40K over 6 years and we were together 8 years with no kids.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

I would request full financial disclosure to explain the drop in income, and if she is intentionally underemployed, have an income inputted on her to the amount she is capable of earning rather then what she "is" earning.

The threat of the life insurance has been used in CS claims to ensure that a child of the marriage continues to receive support in the event of an untimely death. This tactic for insurance was pulled on us in a CS claim. We countered with the fact that she had an income capable of supporting a personal insurance claim and that our income couldn't afford a claim for ourselves much less for her. We showed how our income was spent, and how the increased cost of insurance premiums would cause "undue" financial hardship. The key word being "undue" = excessive, too much, unwarranted, well you get it.

If she is able and has proven to be able to support herself then I would fight the SS claim. The duration, "at the very least", and then the amount based on your ability to pay Versus her need.
These are two very important issues to clearly address, as some forget that although there are very good grounds for support, they do not have to mean that they are 100% guaranteed. Make sure your lawyer fights this hard, leave nothing unturned; this is where the gloves come off!

[bryan]

Thank you FL for your advice. I am meeting with my lawyer today. I will bring up these points. She has agreed to finally put up the house for sale. She wont let me buy it from her, so i agreed to just sell it and move on. We are so far apart in our offers i have a feeling this is going to have to go to court. I offered 17k and her lawyer comes back at 40k. I dont understand why her lawyer didnt include my child support payments in his supportmate calculations. She also told her lawyer my income is 75K a year and i have no idea where she got that number from. My T4 last year says 65K and her T4 tax returns from 2006 she grossed 32k, now she is saying she only made 27K.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

Again, request full financial disclosure, and provide the same so that an "accurate" calculation can be made. It still may be inequitable but it’s better to start with accurate records then trying to go back and start over. Cross all your T’s and dot all your I’s.

Reiterate the omissions, since your CS obligation takes precedence over her request for SS and should come off your income "before" anything else is done with it. Also include any costs associated to access, including having to maintain adequate living arrangements for the access visits, fuel, and any extra expenses etc

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

One thing, if this goes to court, your focus should be child centered, maintain your obligations to your children, the courts favour that focus.
It'll make you look like a caring dad trying to maintain your CS obligation whereas she'll look like she is gold digging when she is quite capable of supporting herself without SS.

[bryan]

I was wondering if anyone knows the answer to this question in my ongoing saga. We have sold the house, and the closing is end of September. I have sent her 2 offers through a lawyer, and she countered with one offer that was outrageous. I offered 360 a month or 20K cash if she let me buy the house from her. She refused and came back with 30K and 560 a month, which is completely stupid and way over the spousal support guidelines. I have since made a counter offer and she has not responded. I think she is waiting before she comes after me once the house has closed. My questions is can she hold up the funds from the sale of the house for any reason. I am worried because if i buy a new place and put a deposit down and then she does something to my funds, i am terrified of losing my deposit. Does she have any legal recourse to freeze the funds from the house sale.

Any info would be great.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc...anlii6410.html

This is a case where the sale of the home was delayed by ex wife, and husband resided in home.
He offered to buy her share or sell the home and split assets.
She stalled the sale, she did not have the same excuses or reasons for her delays as in your case, but she stalled none the less.
Judge found she was intentionally delaying and ordered costs.
He also determined the value of the assets less any fees etc, and determined what her share of the assets were void the actual sale of the home.

So how the ex husband came up with the funds to pay her share is not demonstrated here, I see this as one party stalling the process, the courts say the tactics, and determined their own division based on values previously submitted.

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...nlii49524.html

This case explains how the courts view delays and if they are justified. If not they rule in the favour of the no-delaying party

This one is worth a read,
http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...anlii5861.html

It shows ex trying to secure maintenance payments against the matrimonial property.
Since maintenance payments were/are calculated on income, then there is no need to secure the payments against any assets.

One more,

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...anlii8099.html