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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:58 AM
WorkingMom2007 WorkingMom2007 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
In a matter where custody and access that is supposedly is settled FINAL you will require a "material changer in circumstance" to change access. Even if it is a phone call. Especially if the other party won't agree to the change.

FINAL orders are meant to be FINAL.
Well, I guess someone's ego got bruised. The FINAL order states the following:

6) When ****** is in the care of his mother, he shall be permitted and encouraged to communicate with his father, via Skype, as often as he wishes. ******** will not be given a cellular telephone of his own.

The fact that his dad interprets this to mean he, the father, gets a call everyday, and harasses and yells at him, is why an 11 year old ducking calls. Which means, then I can expect to deal with it through no longer existent parenting coordinator/arbitrator, CAS or in court. He's been warned by everyone to avoid bringing my son into the conflict, but beyond that there's nothing else to be done.

I don't listen to you, and yes disregard you, because you're the most negative, harsh, "why even bother" attitude person in this forum. Despite your assessment of me, which has in the past been wrong, I listened to my legal counsel, my ownself, my support system, and have done well for my son. I am guessing that you're here because you're also a parent, and found this forum, much like the rest of us. If you're spending this much time here, then you can't be spending too much time with yours.

The fact that you need to single out, and force your opinion on someone who clearly doesn't want your opinion, speaks to a psychosis I'm under qualified to address.

Again, thanks for your advise. Not what I was looking for.
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  #22  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:17 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Default Voice of the Child Report

Has there been any thought to having dad and son attend counseling so that son can speak to dad about his issues and have a neutral party there to provide advice and support?

I ask because I can imagine how difficult it is for your son and your ex is probably convinced you are stopping kid from communicating. Kids in the middle of their parents legal issues and exposed to conflict struggle with having some control over their actions while also trying to keep both parents happy (their perception, not what parents are doing). I say this from my own experience with two high conflict parents who felt fighting each other was more important.

If your ex refuses to adhere to an existing order, getting another order really wont do much but cause more anger. Having a neutral party sit down with both of them to discuss their feelings and how to resolve the issue may be a better solution.

Just my two cents...I find fighting for more and more orders is useless and just creates more conflict driving kids to stop speaking to a parent for years.
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  #23  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:28 AM
WorkingMom2007 WorkingMom2007 is offline
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Has there been any thought to having dad and son attend counseling so that son can speak to dad about his issues and have a neutral party there to provide advice and support?

I ask because I can imagine how difficult it is for your son and your ex is probably convinced you are stopping kid from communicating. Kids in the middle of their parents legal issues and exposed to conflict struggle with having some control over their actions while also trying to keep both parents happy (their perception, not what parents are doing). I say this from my own experience with two high conflict parents who felt fighting each other was more important.

If your ex refuses to adhere to an existing order, getting another order really wont do much but cause more anger. Having a neutral party sit down with both of them to discuss their feelings and how to resolve the issue may be a better solution.

Just my two cents...I find fighting for more and more orders is useless and just creates more conflict driving kids to stop speaking to a parent for years.
That was the reason we included a parenting coordinator/arbitrator in the order. BUT, Dad was way too difficult for the person handle and ended the term and wished not to renew.

OCL in its report concluded exactly what you stated above, that despite what evidence is presented to Dad at the end of investigation of an allegation, he is unlikely to accept and will continue to keep litigating or bringing the allegation to a new source to investigate.

He even forced my son to make a video alleging I don't providing him access thereby preventing my son to call. The parenting coordinator/arbitrator, who was provided the video, correctly concluded my son had been forced, and like any child in that situation, would choose to please the parent in front of him to avoid conflict. Dad did not take it well. He brought the issue up on an affidavit when we argued a motion for security for costs. Judge did not address it as we have a parenting coordinator. So the next step was CAS, who closed the file two weeks later.

Sadly, at this point, Dad is convinced when my son is 12, he can make up his mind about where he wants to live, the "material change in circumstance", and keeps his harassment and yelling. No child should have to go through that.

As it's noted, during VoC process, the child must be interviewed at his dad once. I am sure Dad will consent to VoC, BUT it may be extremely stressful and traumatizing for my son to have it done at his dad. I wonder if the interviews can be done in a neutral setting? Like his school?
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:01 AM
WorkingMom2007 WorkingMom2007 is offline
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http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/f...ecp/voi2a.html

I found this link which explains it for each province, starting at the bottom of the first page, and continuing on page 2
I completely missed this post. Thank you.
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  #25  
Old 03-17-2018, 11:03 PM
denbigh denbigh is offline
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do you want to get the voices of the children report to show dad to get him to back off, or are you waiting to see if dad will bring the matter to court, and then have the report for that process? I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:06 PM
momof2teenboys momof2teenboys is offline
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I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
I'd be interested to know the answer to this. As worthless as many seem to think the various assessments are, there seem to be a few social workers out there offering to provide them privately - and not just when court ordered. I ran into this in the past few years - one "assessor" offered to provide a report to show alienation - being paid by one parent without the other parent's knowledge. (not my case thank goodness) Just looks like another way to make money off of a broken process.
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  #27  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:27 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Originally Posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
6) When ****** is in the care of his mother, he shall be permitted and encouraged to communicate with his father, via Skype, as often as he wishes. ******** will not be given a cellular telephone of his own.
Then why are you even bothering to get a "voice of the child" report if this is the exact wording? Why even go to court unless you are the respondent in the matter.

Access telephone calls work this way:

Child of 3 years typically can last 3 minutes on the phone.
Child of 5 years typically can last 5 minutes on the phone.
(See the pattern?)

Furthermore, most orders reasonably put ONE CALL in a 5-day stretch where a child is not residing with the parent. A judge will not order every day. At most, it could be adjusted to 1 calls in every 5 days of non-contact... That is if the child is <14 years of age.

>14 years of age... you will get exactly what you already have ordered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
The fact that his dad interprets this to mean he, the father, gets a call everyday, and harasses and yells at him, is why an 11 year old ducking calls.
The rule is 1 call in 5 days when the child does not reside (have access) with the other parent. That is common knowledge. At the minimum, you should be making the child call 1 time every 5 days with no access. You should be enforcing this minimum rule with an 11 year old child and have a log book of the resulting punishment for not doing so. A court will expect you to facilitate calls at this minimum rate.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:33 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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I don't listen to you, and yes disregard you, because you're the most negative, harsh, "why even bother" attitude person in this forum.
You clearly haven't been on this forum very long then.

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Originally Posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
Despite your assessment of me, which has in the past been wrong, I listened to my legal counsel, my ownself, my support system, and have done well for my son.
Yet you post on public forums with an assumed name asking for "help" from (as you state below) mentally ill individuals. :P

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Originally Posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
I am guessing that you're here because you're also a parent, and found this forum, much like the rest of us.
Guess all you want. The only reason I am here is to assist others... Like WorkingDad, LovingFather32, and a number of all successful contributors to this forum.

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Originally Posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
If you're spending this much time here, then you can't be spending too much time with yours.
This is where assumptions are incorrectly made. I contribute to this forum as a social experiment and to train a software system I have developed.

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Originally Posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
The fact that you need to single out, and force your opinion on someone who clearly doesn't want your opinion, speaks to a psychosis I'm under qualified to address.
Actually, I respond to all threads and on this forum you don't get to choose who responds. Feel free to put me on "ignore" but, I will continue to respond with my opinions and support them with facts. This is for the benefit of the much larger audience of yourself. The hundreds of thousands of people who read this forum. To ensure they don't do things like you are doing and waste court resources and personal finances on nonsense.

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Originally Posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
Again, thanks for your advise. Not what I was looking for.
Like most high conflict people you are looking for reinforcement of the answer you already have formed. You are not actually looking for advice or help. You are simply seeking negative advocates to support your bad ideas.

https://www.highconflictinstitute.co...vocates-or-not

Good Luck!
Tayken

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #29  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:35 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
do you want to get the voices of the children report to show dad to get him to back off, or are you waiting to see if dad will bring the matter to court, and then have the report for that process? I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
You are correct. They need to be court ordered or agreed upon by both parties. If they are one sided they are useless.
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:56 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Originally Posted by momof2teenboys View Post
I'd be interested to know the answer to this. As worthless as many seem to think the various assessments are, there seem to be a few social workers out there offering to provide them privately - and not just when court ordered. I ran into this in the past few years - one "assessor" offered to provide a report to show alienation - being paid by one parent without the other parent's knowledge. (not my case thank goodness) Just looks like another way to make money off of a broken process.
You are 100% correct. These are called "backdoor assessments".

See this article for more details: http://www.yoursocialworker.com/s-ar...ssessments.htm
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