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  • #16
    But thats the rate to calculate cdn to us. im saying he earns a us income which when calculated as canadian is actually higher than what he earns here. I think that calculation is wrong.

    Maybe I am wrong, anyone else on here know how you should be calculating an american income for canadian support?

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    • #17
      Yes, it works out higher.

      70K US at exchange rate 2 years ago is $90K CAD
      70K US at exchange rate today is $85K CAD

      Right now, CS is based on the 90 and as of June 2020 should be based on the 85.

      (not the real numbers, just an example)

      Comment


      • #18
        From this link https://www.djb.com/2017/10/cross-bo...-implications/

        When the recipient lives in Canada, but the Payor lives outside of Canada, the income available for support must be translated into Canadian equivalent dollars. The exchange rate used is based on the average exchange rate for the year. For example, assume the Payor’s income for support purposes is $100,000 US earned in Florida in 2016. To get an equivalent Canadian amount, multiply the amount by the average US / Canadian exchange rate for the year of 1.325, resulting in equivalent Canadian amount of $132,500.
        If this is true then I am right. His US income would be higher in CDN $. Make sure you add the exchange to the amount.

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        • #19
          Yes, that's precisely what we do.

          But exchange rates change, especially over the last few years. The initial order applied a 3% exchange rate. The subsequent one 25% (off the top of my head, I can't remember definitively).

          The last time I was in court I received a huge lump sum amount because he'd been paying based on the 3% exchange rate (because he refused to update CS annually). So, I waited 3 years and reset the cs amount based on the new exchange rate and received arrears for prior years and those years used Dec 31 BofC rate as the exchange rate. This was the methodology applied when I was in court obtaining the order that had 3% exchange rate.

          This time, that exchange rate has gone down marginally, which means cs could go down if his base US income didn't change. I don't know if it did or not because, once again, he won't provide disclosure.

          Comment


          • #20
            Him and his lawyer always approach the situation with the forethought that I'm out to screw them financially and imply I'm lying about this that or the other.

            It became very invasive at one point, and meaningless since my income had zero determination on how much child support he paid. Despite not ever proving this once, despite asking for a S7 expense to be taken off the order, despite every single number I provide them being checked off as 100% accurate, they still go about it in the same way. It really upsets me because I take pride in my financial integrity and honesty. My job is Financial Controller.

            I guess I'm just venting because despite having an agreement, despite being honest, despite him losing every single time in court, I have to do this again and it seems highly unfair. He hires a lawyer, because he's in the US, but I go it alone because I just can't fund a lawyer to do what I already funded a lawyer to do. He claims to be "struggling" financially, yet willingly spends thousands on lawyers that get him nowhere. It feels personal, vindictive and abusive to me.

            Thanks for hearing the vent and offering up what you can. I do appreciate it.

            Comment


            • #21
              It is frustrating and know that there are dads out there who follow the agreement and pay what they owe and have ex wives who insist they owe more. If my husbands ex had just shut her mouth and accepted what he paid she would be up $2000 plus the $3000 she had to pay for his legal fees and what I estimate as $5000 for her legal fees. She too felt my husband was trying to screw her despite us providing piles of documents and her providing nothing (not even copies of tuition receipts or OSAP awards).

              If it really isn’t that much of a difference and his cs would go down, why not just calculate what he would owe for the school expenses and consider it a wash? If his cs payments will go down $2000 a year and he owes you $3000 for school is it really worth you wasting the time and energy? If you took it to court the judge would expect a reasonable contribution from the child (and his lawyer would insist on it) which would not be in accordance with what is in your agreement. Despite it being that way, kids have to contribute it’s just how much that works out to that will be disputed.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                It is frustrating and know that there are dads out there who follow the agreement and pay what they owe and have ex wives who insist they owe more. If my husbands ex had just shut her mouth and accepted what he paid she would be up $2000 plus the $3000 she had to pay for his legal fees and what I estimate as $5000 for her legal fees. She too felt my husband was trying to screw her despite us providing piles of documents and her providing nothing (not even copies of tuition receipts or OSAP awards).

                If it really isn’t that much of a difference and his cs would go down, why not just calculate what he would owe for the school expenses and consider it a wash? If his cs payments will go down $2000 a year and he owes you $3000 for school is it really worth you wasting the time and energy? If you took it to court the judge would expect a reasonable contribution from the child (and his lawyer would insist on it) which would not be in accordance with what is in your agreement. Despite it being that way, kids have to contribute it’s just how much that works out to that will be disputed.
                I know people are sly, I get that, I just haven't been. He has the receipt from school, he has the OSAP information, he has my income information, he has everything he needs to just say okay.

                According to my calcs, cs would go down only $500 in total for the entire year. His share of tuition is around $1500 a semester, so $3000 after scholarships, etc are accounted for. So, this year the negative would be $2500. I'm not bothering with books, or any incidentals, it doesn't seem worth the effort. Just tuition. This year I can cover it, but considering everything that has happened in 2020 so far, I'm not counting on anything anymore.

                Comment


                • #23
                  If you are taking it to court then throw everything you can in. Tuition, books, materials, transportation etc.

                  Consider this as your last kick at the can and ask for everything to be set.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I will. That's generally what I've done in the past.

                    I'll give him the opportunity to save some money, like this time, I'll forget about income increase, I'll recognize the annual over payment in the first semester tuition, I knocked off 5% of his share of the expenses, and asked for nothing for books, materials or anything over and above just the tuition amount.

                    And then he needs to control the situation and says no and ignores it altogether. Then I have him served, in the US, and do the court thing with him sending in the lawyer that has always represented him, but is never representing him when it's time to serve documents. Last time it took over 18 months to settle it due to non-disclosure and delays on his part. It feels abusive and I can't help but think that all the laws and rules that are in place, something isn't there to prevent this awful use of court time.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I will just add my 2 cents on dealing with US income.

                      I highly recommend you should use the Bank of Canada annual average exchange rate instead of the Dec 31st value. This smoothes out the volatility in a given year.

                      Since cad has fallen against usd recently, his income (when converted to cad) should be more. For example, 2018 rate was 1.2957, 2019 was 1.3269 and how 2020 is going, it is likely it will be even higher this year.

                      And of course, once USD income is converted to CAD, all CS/s7 calculations should be done in Cdn dollars.

                      For the sake of stability/predictability, another suggestion is you guys could agree to a fixed exchange rate for the next 4 years i.e. can agree to a number around 5-year average rate.



                      Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seeker101 View Post
                        I will just add my 2 cents on dealing with US income.

                        I highly recommend you should use the Bank of Canada annual average exchange rate instead of the Dec 31st value. This smoothes out the volatility in a given year.

                        Since cad has fallen against usd recently, his income (when converted to cad) should be more. For example, 2018 rate was 1.2957, 2019 was 1.3269 and how 2020 is going, it is likely it will be even higher this year.

                        And of course, once USD income is converted to CAD, all CS/s7 calculations should be done in Cdn dollars.

                        For the sake of stability/predictability, another suggestion is you guys could agree to a fixed exchange rate for the next 4 years i.e. can agree to a number around 5-year average rate.



                        Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
                        Thank you for your input. I agree, I could have fought for a different exchange rate calculation back then, but I was also dealing with custody issues that felt more important. I decided early on to agree with everything reasonable they put forward financially to, once again, show the court that I wasn't really financially motivated due to the scrutiny put on me.

                        The last time I requested a decrease in a court ordered S7 expense because the child was now coaching in the activity and the costs were nill as a result. She was working her way through it all, which I respected and encouraged.

                        I was also asking for an increase in child support, but only because income and exchange rates went up. So, while he owed me money the resulting court order was for less than the one it was replacing. And I couldn't get him to agree on that. He actually hired a lawyer to work this out in court, which is just incredible to me.

                        I've been self-represented for the majority of the court time, so I expected that I would make some errors along the way that might cost me a little bit, but at least I didn't have a huge legal bill to deal with nonsense.

                        I wish I could work something out with him, but he's just completely unwilling. I received a long response containing two paragraphs about his wife being sick and he didn't even bother to ask how our daughter was and it was her birthday the following day. He just doesn't care.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tired_of_court View Post

                          I was also asking for an increase in child support, but only because income and exchange rates went up. So, while he owed me money the resulting court order was for less than the one it was replacing. And I couldn't get him to agree on that. He actually hired a lawyer to work this out in court, which is just incredible to me.
                          I didn't understand your above statement, it seems contradictory. If both income (assuming in usd) and exchange rate went up, then net result should be that income in cad (upon which CS should be based) went up even more.

                          How can resulting court order be less than existing one? Unless you agreed to something on consent?

                          Originally posted by Tired_of_court View Post

                          I've been self-represented for the majority of the court time, so I expected that I would make some errors along the way that might cost me a little bit, but at least I didn't have a huge legal bill to deal with nonsense.
                          I've self repping and feel that opposing counsel think self reps are easy targets and try to intimidate using fancy legal jargon, threats or warnings to get you to settle. But remember, they are protecting their client's interests, not yours. And if you felt pressured into accepting a settlement, they will later claim well, you agreed to it. So one needs to tread carefully, fully research and understand the law and preferably seek legal advice.

                          Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            He cares—about his money.

                            There are plenty of parents who move on and don’t look back. The sad part is they will realize their mistakes years from now and will have nothing as their kids turn their backs on them the same way.

                            Remember you are raising a good person who depends on you. Your ex is simply a selfish asshole.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seeker101 View Post
                              I didn't understand your above statement, it seems contradictory. If both income (assuming in usd) and exchange rate went up, then net result should be that income in cad (upon which CS should be based) went up even more.

                              How can resulting court order be less than existing one? Unless you agreed to something on consent?



                              I've self repping and feel that opposing counsel think self reps are easy targets and try to intimidate using fancy legal jargon, threats or warnings to get you to settle. But remember, they are protecting their client's interests, not yours. And if you felt pressured into accepting a settlement, they will later claim well, you agreed to it. So one needs to tread carefully, fully research and understand the law and preferably seek legal advice.

                              Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
                              I know it sounds confusing, but the order was guideline child support + $250 in S7 expenses. It was replaced with guideline child support only.

                              Yes, that support went up due to income change and exchange rate, but there was no order for anything above guideline. His court ordered monthly obligation was going down, not up.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                His lawyer has tried his best to intimidate me since the beginning. He used all his fancy legal jargon with the exchange rate battle and I just went along with what the judge determined reasonable. I really didn't care that much. The custody discussion was more important and he showed his true colours during that discussion, so I felt the judge would be fair and she was.

                                He really puts on a show like there's a lot at stake, but there is nothing extraordinary about our agreement, the court orders, our incomes. What's extraordinary is his need to battle because it just costs him more in the end. If I file the motion to get what he's supposed to pay, then it's going to be for everything he's supposed to pay. If he just cooperated now, he'd pay less.

                                Comment

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