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  • S11 doesn’t want to follow access

    hi – im hitting an parenting issue, and I’m looking for some prospective from people who have been here.

    Been divorced for 5 years. Son and mother live 400km away.

    Started with every other weekend, and ˝ holidays.

    I brought a motion to change forward 2 years ago, signed on consent last fall changed to: all PD days, holiday weekends, 6 weeks in summer, every other March break and Easter. This was due to distances, and my work schedule. (Mother didn’t want to change, had to use court)

    Son (11) has stated that he doesn’t want to come here for 6 weeks – wants to spend 3 to 4 weeks here total. His reasoning is that he wants to spend the summer with his friends.

    His mother says she’s “staying neutral” (gee, thanks). Summer would be 3 x 1 week and 1 x 3 weeks (this is a function of work and planned trips)

    So far I’ve tried moving things around little for him – and have told him that if he’s here, and really wants to leave id send him back to his mothers.

    Before anyone asks he has his own room, PS4, toys, etc here. I put him in day camps which align with what he likes – and have told him that he can bring friends up to stay sometimes.

    As a parent, what do you suggest?

    I’m telling him the schedule stays. I’m getting daily texts from him and his mother wanting to change it.

  • #2
    Any way you can tell him to invite a friend to stay over for a week or two as well?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm just going to give my honest opinion but he is getting to the age where hanging out with his parents isn't cool anymore. It is nothing person it's just how it is at that age...

      He is old enough to be able to hang out with friends and have fun with them during the summer... asking him to come for 6 weeks is a long time... being 400km away means he likely doesn't know anyone (or very few) in your community. He most likely sees it as a waste of summer for him... while his friends are all hanging out having fun, he's sitting in day camps where he doesn't know anyone. What about a week on week off schedule in the summer? Sure it's not the full 6 weeks but it will get you pretty close... that way he isn't away from his friends for long periods of time.

      I do feel like you should try to work with him on it. Unfortunately with that distance I feel like in a couple years your summer access will become less and less especially if he secures summer employment at 14. Obviously mom isn't going to be much help so it is best to have a conversation with your son and find out what it would take for him to spend at least half the summer with you. Try to understand his point of views as well.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
        I'm just going to give my honest opinion but he is getting to the age where hanging out with his parents isn't cool anymore. It is nothing person it's just how it is at that age...

        He is old enough to be able to hang out with friends and have fun with them during the summer... asking him to come for 6 weeks is a long time... being 400km away means he likely doesn't know anyone (or very few) in your community. He most likely sees it as a waste of summer for him... while his friends are all hanging out having fun, he's sitting in day camps where he doesn't know anyone. What about a week on week off schedule in the summer? Sure it's not the full 6 weeks but it will get you pretty close... that way he isn't away from his friends for long periods of time.

        I do feel like you should try to work with him on it. Unfortunately with that distance I feel like in a couple years your summer access will become less and less especially if he secures summer employment at 14. Obviously mom isn't going to be much help so it is best to have a conversation with your son and find out what it would take for him to spend at least half the summer with you. Try to understand his point of views as well.
        I have to agree with this. That 400km distance is going to cost you your son some day. I would suggest doing your best to make the time spent with you more appealing to him. Take the weeks you have him off work as much as you can so you don't have to put him in summer camp. As much as you think the camps might be fun, from his perspective, you are taking him away from his friends and then not even spending much time with him, instead foisting him off on strangers in a form of babysitting. On top of that, he can't sign up for weekly summer sports, or other activities, very easily, if he's going to miss half the games because he's out of town. Let him invite a friend, like a giant weeklong sleepover. Plan vacations he would enjoy.

        Show him you can be flexible and work with his desires. Does one of his friends have a summer birthday and do a big party? Assure him that you will schedule things so that he's at his mom's that week. Does he get invited to a friend's cottage, and he doesn't want to miss it? Make HIS schedule your priority, not yours. Find out when his best weeks are for visiting you and focus on them. If something arises later, show that you can respect him and fit it in for him as best you can. He wants to spend up to 4 weeks with you, so that's still pretty much half the summer. I wouldn't tell him that he can ask to go back to his mom's mid-visit though. He'll feel bad about disappointing you and be reluctant to be honest. If he can predict a need to go back to his mom's for some social event, he should be up front about it before the visit starts and you can figure out a plan together.

        If you have summer trips planned, let him know those aren't as flexible, of course. You're not going to fly him back from PEI (or wherever) so he wont' miss soccer night. But if he can predict something like his best friend's birthday party at their cottage one weekend, make sure that's not a week he's with you.

        And give him lots of electronic contact with his buds when he's with you.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would think this happens to many. I remember that my parent s would take a summer vacation for 4 weeks every year and as a child it was great but when I turned 14 I did not want to be away from friends for that long.

          I was pushed to go that summer I turned 14 and I made everyone's life miserable.
          The next summer we went away for 2 weeks and then I stayed home with an aunt and they took off again. It was bliss!

          So best to call your son and say " ok let work this out"

          Enjoy the weeks he wants to come and always leave the door open for additional visits.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'll disagree with the others. An 11 yr old would not be manipulating our parenting schedule. But I was lucky to have an ex that worked with me. I get that your ex appears to be facilitating him (so frustrating!).

            I would simply reply to the ex (not your kidlet), that any reduction needs to be re-scheduled, so are we increasing over Xmas and March break? Day-for-day, when do we hang, with little kidlet.

            And then - when you hang, you need to be hanging with him --What is your career? Is it mobile? I can, for the most part, with access to wifi, work anywhere in the world. Is it an option for you, to take a 2 week/or month airbnb in his town and work from there?
            Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
              I'll disagree with the others. An 11 yr old would not be manipulating our parenting schedule. But I was lucky to have an ex that worked with me. I get that your ex appears to be facilitating him (so frustrating!).

              I would simply reply to the ex (not your kidlet), that any reduction needs to be re-scheduled, so are we increasing over Xmas and March break? Day-for-day, when do we hang, with little kidlet.

              And then - when you hang, you need to be hanging with him --What is your career? Is it mobile? I can, for the most part, with access to wifi, work anywhere in the world. Is it an option for you, to take a 2 week/or month airbnb in his town and work from there?
              To this point:

              As Justice Quinn stated in Gerenia v. Harb:
              Undoubtedly, there are many tasks that a child, when asked may find unpleasant to perform. But ask we must and perform they must. A child who refused to go on an access visit should be treated by the custodial parent the same as a child who refused to go to school or otherwise misbehaves. The job of a parent is to parent.

              Tell the other parent to PARENT!

              Comment


              • #8
                I just got a message from my son 13 "not coming to visit next weekend I have plans with my friends"

                Just had a squabble with my ex today child 13 told her some fabricated lie over what happened in my house this past weekend. She refuses to believe the truth and believes the child.

                Now all of a sudden he doesn't want to visit?

                Is that allowed? Should I let him have that choice?

                Comment


                • #9
                  She is supposed to facilitate access and encourage the time. Hes 13 though so she can claim its his choice. You may want to attempt to resolve the issue with your son and remind your ex its in your childs best interest to spend time with his father and you hope she will encourage that.

                  Not likely to happen. Document everything!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well I disagree.

                    Do you think it's going to work out telling a 13 year that you are the "parent" and this is the court
                    Order you
                    And the other parent worked out " in their best interest" so they would have " the right" to know both parents. Therefore you will leave your friends for 6 weeks in the summer.

                    I doubt
                    Any 13 year old would consider that in their best interest. At 13 they likely think they know their
                    Parents pretty well and really
                    Just want to
                    Hang with their friends.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Quality over quantity. Take 2 weeks off work and spend that time with your child will be more meaniful then 6 weeks away from his buddies so you can put him in a day camp with Kids he does not know. But oh you are having a meaniful time with him. Sorry I do not believe this is in the best interest of the child. It's to feed the " entitlement" of the parents !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The way though BN would be for the custodial parent to put restrictions on the child who refuses to go for the access visit. Remove technology, reduce time with friends etc...

                        Let us not forget the whole case law that erupted on this forum:

                        https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...3onsc2364.html

                        [23] Ms. Scrivo’s response is only that that although she asked him to go he said he did not want to go.

                        [24] It is not uncommon for children to express their wish that they do not want to go on access. It is the court order however that directs the custodial parent to ensure that the access occurs and to require the child to attend despite their expressed wishes.

                        [25] Justice Greer noted this point in Sickinger v. Sickinger 2009 CanLII 28203 (ON SC), 2009 CanLII 28203, [2009] O.J.No. 2306 at para. 30 saying, “The parent does not have to force a child to go with the other parent but should “require” the child to do. A failure to require the child to do that is considered contempt.” See: V.(S.) v I. (T.), 2009 Carswell Ont 1023 (S.C.J.).

                        [26] As counsel for Mr. Scrivo points out, Ms. Scrivo did not provide evidence that she required Brendan to attend. There is no evidence that she was giving any sanctions to Brendan for his failure to attend.
                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          To this point:

                          As Justice Quinn stated in Gerenia v. Harb:
                          Undoubtedly, there are many tasks that a child, when asked may find unpleasant to perform. But ask we must and perform they must. A child who refused to go on an access visit should be treated by the custodial parent the same as a child who refused to go to school or otherwise misbehaves. The job of a parent is to parent.

                          Tell the other parent to PARENT!
                          I find this perspective a bit simplistic.

                          If my child didn't want to go to school, I would of course parent her. But to me, parenting means talking with her, finding out what her concerns were and assisting her or addressing those concerns directly.

                          If she was being bullied, I would go to the school and support her to get a resolution. If she was having trouble with the academics, I would find someone to support her learning. If she was embarrassed by clothes or appearance, I would help her, etc. etc. etc. The big picture is WHY doesn't she want to go to school.

                          Just saying "oh, you have to go or else" is not good parenting.

                          So, what if the other parent is the problem/reason that the child doesn't want to visit? How do you resolve that? Simply punishing the child for not spending time with the other parent isn't going to solve anything. It is just going to make the child resent everyone. Where is the solution in all of that?? Talking to my ex about the problem isn't going to get us anywhere. He doesn't listen.

                          And finally, your advice to tell the other parent "to PARENT!" is ridiculous. I am not my ex's wife any longer and certainly do not tell him what to do. Saying that to any ex sounds like a recipe for disaster.
                          Last edited by SadAndTired; 06-16-2017, 12:47 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes but you both are parents to the children and there was obviously an issue where the child has decided not to go. If the issue is the kid doesn't like the rules at dads house would you say you're right they suck you can stay home? Or would you say that there are rules in life you have to follow and you may not like dads rules but you have to respect them. You are going to see him this weekend like normal and thats final.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                              I find this perspective a bit simplistic.

                              If my child didn't want to go to school, I would of course parent her. But to me, parenting means talking with her, finding out what her concerns were and assisting her or addressing those concerns directly.

                              If she was being bullied, I would go to the school and support her to get a resolution. If she was having trouble with the academics, I would find someone to support her learning. If she was embarrassed by clothes or appearance, I would help her, etc. etc. etc. The big picture is WHY doesn't she want to go to school.

                              Just saying "oh, you have to go or else" is not good parenting.

                              So, what if the other parent is the problem/reason that the child doesn't want to visit? How do you resolve that? Simply punishing the child for not spending time with the other parent isn't going to solve anything. It is just going to make the child resent everyone. Where is the solution in all of that?? Talking to my ex about the problem isn't going to get us anywhere. He doesn't listen.

                              And finally, your advice to tell the other parent "to PARENT!" is ridiculous. I am not my ex's wife any longer and certainly do not tell him what to do. Saying that to any ex sounds like a recipe for disaster.
                              Feel free to take it up with Justice Quinn, Justice Greer, Justice Donohue and others... Just providing the references for readers to consider that not doing so could be contempt: "A failure to require the child to do that is considered contempt."
                              Last edited by Tayken; 06-16-2017, 02:00 PM.

                              Comment

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