Life After The Motion

[MrToronto]

I agree with Strait...strip letters of emotion...past grievances.... godly justification....points for proving past injustice.

I would adjust ....I am drafting a separation agreement and will send it to your office when complete.

this leads of course to future dialogue.....did you receive draft sep....are you interested in mediation....yadda yadda.

This letter is geared for including in a SC brief....everything ends there

Now pre planning Trial

Everybody loses going for SOLE as soon as the below statement is made.

WHO WAS the primary parent prior to separation (stay at home moms typically)

AT point of separation....FEB 2014 D3 was 2.5 yrs old.

It's easy for the unemployed to take advantage of this......if the child was 8 or 5 maybe even 3 years.

How much time can be proved D3 was at gramma's....picture of D3's room there would be nice.

Drinking and partying D3 was at gramma's

Your work schedule was primarily when D3 was asleep. (although you supposedly worked a 100 hours a week.

Goldilocks emotionally left the relationship way way back in AUG...is this a factor? It's provable by OCL report.....there was also a mystery counsellor prior to AUGUST!

Last august would put D3 around 2 yrs. It's proven Goldilocks was recording stuff....living a lie.....setting you up.....artificially becoming the primary parent by pushing you out the door for work or whatever.

You stayed at home for some time because of an injury...lucky for injuries.

So a lot of primary parent will be decided on the above.

You want BOTH parents are equal of course.

Your then moving on to the allegations which artificially made you unequal...with no rights as a parent.

[Rioe]

Every word I say can be used against me in court. Every instance on "tone". Every syllable. Does this sound okay? I'm sure ex will simply state "have your lawyer talk to my lawyer".

What if my lawyer says not to send it? I want to be the first party offering this stuff. Since ex and I are communicating now is it not okay for me to send something like this?

__________________________________________________ ______________

Hi _____,

Despite all of my previous offers being turned down, I would like to take this opportunity to once again suggest that we engage in "mediation" and begin drafting up a "separation agreement". Now that many issues have been narrowed down, I believe it would be in D3's best interest if we become more settlement-focused.

I would also like to request any health records for D3 since I have not received any health/welfare information in 9 months despite many requests. Would you be willing to provide those?

I will see you at pick up on Wednesday at noon.

Hope you had a good weekend,

LF32

__________________________________________________ ________________

My suggested edits:

Hi _____,

I would like to remind you that my previous offer to settle is still open, (I've attached a copy of the most recent one) and we should take this opportunity to discuss it now that we have had a taste of court to see if we can avoid more of it. I recommend mediation to help us draft up a separation agreement.

Now that D3is spending regular time with me again, it is important that I have her health/welfare information up to date. Please send me copies of her medical records, either through email or in the communication book. Her health card should also go back and forth between us with her.

I will be at pick up on Wednesday at noon. See you there.

LF32

You are still using a whiny tone, instead of factual. Don't bother mentioning that you've asked for this stuff a million times already, that's laying blame and setting a negative tone. It will just get her back up and make her want to be ornery with the rest of the letter. Just ask politely as if it's from scratch. Also, don't wish her well, or hope she had a good weekend and whatnot - that's too friendly and she'll perceive it as facetious. Be businesslike. Finally, don't ask her if she's willing to do something, especially when she's probably not! Just phrase the requests like you expect her to comply because it is reasonable to do so.

And especially don't use sarcasm quotes!

I can see it going two ways. In the first, she's realized that she's going to lose if she keeps playing the victim with a judge, so she may as well start being reasonable. In the second, she's had a couple of weeks to forget what happened in court and rewrite it in her own mind, and will continue to be unreasonable.

[LovingFather32]

Good advice. Thank you.
I wanted to indirectly remind a judge that I've asked for these things since day 1. I like the re wording. The more business like the better.
So this is basically asking to cancel SC to work on it outside of court. I'm very curious what her response will be. Talk to my lawyer no doubt.

[LovingFather32]

What if I touch on the fact that all the money that will go towards future court costs (probably more than $30,000) would be better spent on D'3's future (education, etc).

[Rioe]

What if I touch on the fact that all the money that will go towards future court costs (probably more than $30,000) would be better spent on D'3's future (education, etc).

Depends how you word it.

Avoiding court will save us a lot of money which is better used for D3 than spent on legal fees.

is good, but

I've wasted $10k already on this, and a full trial would probably be $30k. If you agree to avoid court, I'll get D3 an RESP with the savings.

would not be. The first is collaborative, the second is accusatory, whiny and bribey.

In the case of this email, I personally wouldn't bring up money yet. It makes you sound greedy even with the best wording. Spend a few email exchanges being perfectly chipper and reasonable before you add the topic of money.

[standing on the sidelines]

I wouldn't bother. All she will say is if that's the way you feel then accept what I am willing to give you. You say no then she says that you really didn't mean it. No win situation.

[LovingFather32]

I wouldn't bother. All she will say is if that's the way you feel then accept what I am willing to give you. You say no then she says that you really didn't mean it. No win situation.

Just figured it might remind the judge (when shown as an exhibit) that I'm still the one trying to settle, to stay out of court .. also that the "trial" money might be better spent for other D3-related stuff in her life. I guess I don't see that as a bribe. More like a fact that a judge may respect. Especially since allegations disproved on the record and ex torn a new one .. on record.

I'm literally constructing this e-mail for future use. I want to make sure it's done right. Of course my lawyer has also instructed me to let her go over it before I send it .. which Im doing. All I know is Ive met some brilliant minds here.

[MrToronto]

I suggest LF32 you go over case law where costs were awarded against the party with a LAO lawyer.

Your EX definitely can't pay Costs if you win.

Definitely a Judge will consider that both parties can't afford this. (Judge will know finances of both parties through Form 13)

Is the FREE lawyer driving up expenses unreasonably is a factor. This is why always looking for settlement makes the LAO scumbag lawyer ....look bad.

Your stating the obvious to a scumbag lawyer....he knows full well you have limited means.

At the end of Trial after the Judge renders his Judgement...he ask for costs from each party (sometimes for submissions by parties later on costs)

I've been in that delightful scenario where the Judge was determining costs.

I stood there (trying to contain my glee) thinking I was gonna get a truckload of cash

I didn't...the Judge started asking the EX questions on the bill.....there was long pauses by the Judge (the EX was all red and blotchy)..you could see the steam coming out of Judges ears

It suddenly dawned on me...he knew the EX couldn't pay the dam bill....I was a self rep .... EX had 2 lawyers and a law clerk there....one taking notes as trial progressed....one training for the bar....and the main biotch lawyer (all three black gowns)

I got 2 grand.....I wanted 15 grand (lmao)....EX had to pay her dream team 30k

Moral of the story is what I wrote above....Judge takes along time to figure out who can pay what .....yes sometimes even if the OP wins and is the most unreasonable or even reasonable, it doesn't matter, there is only so much money around for the unwashed to seek Justice through due process.

Your writing a "plea" to a LAO scumbag....where a Judge will already know your fact. (penniless)

Your matter is "simple" one issue ....made complicated by the fact of abduction and allegations (and mentally fukked OCL)

Maybe there's reason for concern here...because of the EX's and LAO lawyers antics.....originally you would of been happy with JOINT

Not now ...after all that's happened.

Goldilocks could of dropped everything way back in May.

Nope she stuck to her position.....somebody wrote earlier a Judge slapped her across the head to wake her up.....Not Happening.

At Trial each party has a opening statement.....orally done.....but usually Judge just reads it in chambers (they do a lot in chambers)

Not only is due process expensive (conferences, motions...all which you won). A Judge will make dam sure you get a the Trial edge just from the shear fact....the LAO scumbag can afford "transcripts"....can afford expensive "questioning witnesses", or can endlessly prolong matters .....you can't begin to match the LAO scumbag lawyer

There's more Trial preparation than the above a lot more...for you to get a fair Trial....you'll never be able to afford a fair Trial. Judge realizes this as soon as he/she see a government funded lawyer and you with whatever you have

So the opening statement is where you add the financial difficulty you are having(no brainer for Judge).

Your OPENING STATEMENT is your theory of your case, what you are looking for, some history on the matter, the difficulties, suggested solution...whatever .... it's usually about 1 page.

Long story....don't bother telling a moron....he's wasting D3's money...he already knows...and he doesn't matter....stick to stuff like FULL DISCLOSURE, health welfare and education, communication, settlement meetings and mediation

[MrToronto]

There's a lot of stuff that will be chopped out for Trial because your not EXXON or Bill Gates.

Number one will be "secret tapes".....which are cute for a O.J Simpson dream team...but hellishly expensive to enter as OP exhibits to try to be turned into evidence by a Judge.

All the Judge has to say is....disallowed.....that parts over OP puts 90 percent of there case away.

Case Law shows secret recordings are a NO NO....why bother spending Trial time on it.

like I said Judges look over everything in chambers.

Took Motion Judge (and CC Judge) 2 seconds to dump allegations or transcripts or the after the fact stuff Goldilocks did like police Reports.

Judge will strip the luxury car position of the OP down to the basic car frame, to get to the ruling over with.

Do the real cost leg work for you lawyer LF32.

Book of Authorities ...case law

Book of Documents....parenting plan, counselling, access chart, letters...e.t.c

The real cost is the witnesses and questioning (strip this down to ZERO if you can you can't afford this part of justice).......wait to see who OP is calling as a witness.

Questioning EX is all you want to do if possible in the witness box......you draft up questions

Leave the rest for Trial Judge to determine


Opening statement. you make up

Your costs shouldn't be much more than now.

[LovingFather32]

I've been noticing cases like mine popping up left, right and center. We have "DivorcingMama" http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...aviours-18255/.

Now we have Confused0123: http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...options-18284/

What the hell is going on here? Why are mother's instantly becoming the judges after separation? There needs to be consequences for this. Don't get me wrong. It's just as putrid if a father does it and Id say the same thing. I just can't find much info about the latter and TOO MUCH about the former.

Status quo, money, control, vengeance and power should NOT trump the child's best interest.

[Rioe]

I've been noticing cases like mine popping up left, right and center. We have "DivorcingMama" http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...aviours-18255/.

Now we have Confused0123: http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...options-18284/

What the hell is going on here? Why are mother's instantly becoming the judges after separation? There needs to be consequences for this. Don't get me wrong. It's just as putrid if a father does it and Id say the same thing. I just can't find much info about the latter and TOO MUCH about the former.

Status quo, money, control, vengeance and power should NOT trump the child's best interest.

Not necessarily.

During a bad relationship, if one parent is less than stellar, or possibly abusive, the other parent generally picks up the slack, runs interference, etc. The child is not in danger as long as the primary parent is there to protect him/her from the abusive/disinterested/incompetent parent. The primary parent also protects the poorer parent from the stress of parenting, which may reduce abusive behaviour. Nobody calls CAS because the situation appears under control.

After the breakup though, the child goes back and forth and is now subject to the full incompetence/abuse of the poorer parent on a regular basis with no possibility of rescue, if necessary.

The solution is supervised access and parenting classes, anger management classes, etc, ramping up to whatever access that parent feels comfortable with, to a max of 50-50, as their parenting skills improve.

Is it in the child's best interests to have a relationship with both parents? Of course. Is it in the child's best interests to have 50-50 access when one parent is barely competent and disinterested in improving? I have my doubts.

It'd be great to be able to say that all new parents step up to the plate and make whatever sacrifices are necessary to become the best parents they can possibly be. Reality happens otherwise, however.

The problem is that there are parents out there who do LIE about their child's other parent being abusive/incompetent when they are not, motivated by money, or desire not to have to co-parent, or treating the child as their possession. Those individuals are the ones who need to be given consequences for their behaviour, to deter others from using the same strategy, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to ever happen.

[Pursuinghappiness]

During a bad relationship, if one parent is less than stellar, or possibly abusive, the other parent generally picks up the slack, runs interference, etc. The child is not in danger as long as the primary parent is there to protect him/her from the abusive/disinterested/incompetent parent. The primary parent also protects the poorer parent from the stress of parenting, which may reduce abusive behaviour. Nobody calls CAS because the situation appears under control.

I think some of the problem is that a lot of people interpret their ex being a bad partner to them into being a bad parent for their child. Particularly those starting the divorce process.

In addition, ex's often parent differently...completely differently. Its often one of the contributing factors in the divorce.

Ultimately, having one of two hate-filled, biased, overly-protective ex-spouses unilaterally determine custody is a disaster. That's why family court exists. Both people have a right to have their voice heard.

I have a real issue when one person circumvents that right to be heard and denies access to the other person based only their biased opinion.

[LovingFather32]

Yep. In a failing relationship it is almost impossible to determine the "poorer" parent. There's turmoil. Both parents will label the other poor, whether it's true or not. An amazing father who sits, plays barbies and princesses, sings, practices ABC's, makes supper, goes to the park, etc in one day ... then has an argument with his spouse will now hold the title "poor parent".

Janibel's ex terrorized her. Unspeakable stuff. But is he a poor parent? Or just a bad guy who doesn't know how to treat women in a relationship? Interestingly, Janibel will tell you he's a great parent and that the instant she thought her child was being abused CAS would have been called. That's what these women should have done. Not wait for their strategic chess move for custody ($$). No excuses for them here... sorry.

Im only going on what I've read. Where's the proof? Where was the "proof" in my case for supervision, denials of access? Ex told police I was a poor parent. I provided a DVD, pictures, witnesses..the whole 9 yards for the judge to say ...Umm.. No actually he's an amazing dad.

Tayken has great caselaw on the truism "abuse" and how the "poor" parent is often a subjective misconception.

Read:
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ase-law-16809/


Counselling for the RELATIONSHIP is better than supervision for ONE parent if there is no history of abuse, no CAS, no police, no nothing. Who are we to judge who the "poorer" parent is without the above noted? If there is evidence of abuse, a history, etc, then okay I fully agree.

Criminals get supervision. Druggies, alcoholics .. real abusers that have evidence of such against them. Not because one parent thinks the other is a "poor parent". Am I wrong here?

I don't buy the "some don't call CAS because they think it will be get better". They should lose custody. If your child is being abused and you don't do something about it (call authorities) to put an end to it what kind of parent are you? That's a child .. being abused. You don't just deny access or say the other needs supervision months/years later.

[standing on the sidelines]

for some reason I think the two posters in question are the same person. Not sure but just a feeling.

[LovingFather32]

lol

Imagine?