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  #11  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:45 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Remember its an offer. Just because he says it doesnít mean it will happen. You could have offered no access, more money and all decisions on you. The point of an offer is to insulate you against costs. You gave him a reasonable offer. Like I said offline, deep breath. You go to your next SC and the judge can hammer him. Hopefully the judge pushes him to agree to a reasonable settlement and then he just goes away.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2019, 11:18 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Hopefully the judge will spend more time with us this time as there was only a stern ďyou donít want this to go to trial talkĒ. I just feel like next SC is waste of money


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  #13  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:59 PM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is offline
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Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
He put that he wants to be able to make an emergency medical decision without my knowing and only have to tell me two hours after the fact? If kids are in his care??
This one actually doesnít seem unreasonable.... My interpretation of it is that he knows that you have sole custody (and sole decision making powers) and wants to be able to make **emergency** medical decisions if shit hits the fan while kids are with him and you are unavailable. I would want the same thing. What if one of the kids is in some sort of freak accident and an immediate decision needs to be made on how to proceed at the hospital? If you arenít there/not responding, you canít really expect everyone to twiddle their thumbs and wait. Iíd be giving him this one.


By the way- congrats Iona, this must be a huge relief for you!
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  #14  
Old 08-20-2019, 04:27 PM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Self Rep mom... thatís not what it says though. It says he only needs to make me aware of an emergency or and emergency decision within two hours of it happening. How about he puts...

He will contact the mother right away... and if she is unreachable then these are the next steps he could take.

Just like they are saying they have health benefits for our kids now that are free. And I can cancel my paid ones, so dad is off the hook for paying half. but still refuse to tell me plan provider what and how much is covered.

Also that he has gone out and purchased life insurance for the boys that is costing him 44$ a month for both kids when our agreement says he is to pay half of the premium for the plan they have had since birth. His half is $12.40. A month. Yet he says he is broke and canít afford to pay Sect 7ís. He does everything to spite me. I never even asked for half of life insurance premiums in my offer to settle and left out camp/ daycare as well. He owes me $5k now. And has offered $1200. Guess thatís better than the 0$ in his first offer.

Sorry to highjack your thread Iona.


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  #15  
Old 08-20-2019, 04:52 PM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is offline
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Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
Self Rep mom... thatís not what it says though. It says he only needs to make me aware of an emergency or and emergency decision within two hours of it happening. How about he puts...

He will contact the mother right away... and if she is unreachable then these are the next steps he could take.
Then reword it so it makes more sense to you, and include it in your next offer.

In your exís/his lawyerís eyes though, it probably already does make sense. Iím guessing the clause says something along the lines of ďNCP is able to make emergency medical decisions on his parenting time and must inform the CP within 2 hoursĒ. Thatís nothing to get hung up on, and still seems fairly reasonable to me (plus have you ever been in a serious medical emergency with your kid? By the time you perform first aid/call 911/rush to hospital/talk to doctor/make sure kid is stable, an hour or two has probably flown by- and all your adrenaline will let you focus on is your kid. Iíd actually prefer if my ex took an hour or two to focus on making sure my kid is in competent medical hands and ok before calling me, because letís face it, my presence probably isnít going to make much of a difference. It might reassure me/my kid, but medically speaking, my presence will make no difference)
If you want to get even more technical and explain the steps your ex must take during an emergency then reword and send back (although unless your kids are high risk like Ionaís, this is probably unnecessary) I wouldnít completely laugh this one off as ridiculous though.
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2019, 05:00 PM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Originally Posted by Selfrepmom View Post
Then reword it so it makes more sense to you, and include it in your next offer.



In your exís/his lawyerís eyes though, it probably already does make sense. Iím guessing the clause says something along the lines of ďNCP is able to make emergency medical decisions on his parenting time and must inform the CP within 2 hoursĒ. Thatís nothing to get hung up on, and still seems fairly reasonable to me (plus have you ever been in a serious medical emergency with your kid? By the time you perform first aid/call 911/rush to hospital/talk to doctor/make sure kid is stable, an hour or two has probably flown by- and all your adrenaline will let you focus on is your kid. Iíd actually prefer if my ex took an hour or two to focus on making sure my kid is in competent medical hands and ok before calling me, because letís face it, my presence probably isnít going to make much of a difference. It might reassure me/my kid, but medically speaking, my presence will make no difference)

If you want to get even more technical and explain the steps your ex must take during an emergency then reword and send back (although unless your kids are high risk like Ionaís, this is probably unnecessary) I wouldnít completely laugh this one off as ridiculous though.


Well if you met my ex you would understand why this is not going to fly. Obviously yes get the kid medical help first. But the second thing you do is call the other parent. Donít think it takes 2 hrs to do that. I would not trust him as he doesnít understand enough to make a life changing decision. Anyways glad you trust your ex to handle this. As I would not. He canít even give or ask a question to a dr when the dr asked him why he was there and what he would like to know? He shut down and his face went all red and then no words come out.

I will try to go through the offer and reword some of the things.. but some of them are just ridiculous and not necessary. Like they put I canít go near my kids at sports on his time. Which only confirms what the kids told the OCL. That he wonít allow them to come near me which causes them anxiety. I always encourage the kids to say hi to dad if and when he shows up.


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  #17  
Old 08-21-2019, 08:12 AM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
Well if you met my ex you would understand why this is not going to fly. Obviously yes get the kid medical help first. But the second thing you do is call the other parent. Donít think it takes 2 hrs to do that. I would not trust him as he doesnít understand enough to make a life changing decision. Anyways glad you trust your ex to handle this. As I would not. He canít even give or ask a question to a dr when the dr asked him why he was there and what he would like to know? He shut down and his face went all red and then no words come out.

I will try to go through the offer and reword some of the things.. but some of them are just ridiculous and not necessary. Like they put I canít go near my kids at sports on his time. Which only confirms what the kids told the OCL. That he wonít allow them to come near me which causes them anxiety. I always encourage the kids to say hi to dad if and when he shows up.


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For what itís worth... when my brother was 1 he had a high fever that broke and sent him into a seizure... my dad was at work... my mom called 911 and it never even crossed her mind to call my Dad as she was focused on my brother... it wasnít until she was at the hospital that she asked to use a phone to call my Dad... this was basically an hour afterwards... she forgot her cell phone at home as after she called 911 she simply put it down and it was the last thing on her mind. Letís face it, at the end of the day the medical professionals are going to do what they have to do to stabilize and transport a patient regardless of whether mom or Dad are there.


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  #18  
Old 08-21-2019, 11:19 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
Well if you met my ex you would understand why this is not going to fly. Obviously yes get the kid medical help first. But the second thing you do is call the other parent. Donít think it takes 2 hrs to do that. I would not trust him as he doesnít understand enough to make a life changing decision. Anyways glad you trust your ex to handle this. As I would not. He canít even give or ask a question to a dr when the dr asked him why he was there and what he would like to know? He shut down and his face went all red and then no words come out.

I will try to go through the offer and reword some of the things.. but some of them are just ridiculous and not necessary. Like they put I canít go near my kids at sports on his time. Which only confirms what the kids told the OCL. That he wonít allow them to come near me which causes them anxiety. I always encourage the kids to say hi to dad if and when he shows up.


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If I can offer a suggestion- don't get caught up in the minutiae. Even if the agreement read as you wanted it to...do you think your ex or his gf are actually going to follow it? Even if it's as clear as day...from what you say- they're not going to care.

My suggestion, for what it's worth, is focus on getting something that

1. clearly shows you have sole custody - with NO restrictions.
2. clearly deals with parenting time
3. clearly sets out the CS amounts and section 7 expenses

All the other stuff- it's noise.

Even our OCL report. My ex disputed it. And while it was instrumental in my securing sole custody...even the judge at our SC (she was really good- Madame Justice Gilmore if anyone is in the Toronto courts) said it was informative but not instructive enough.

Send over another offer. When you get to the SC. Have your lawyer go aggressive and have the offer separate- three copies- ready to give to all parties.

The tactic my lawyer used? He didn't let our judge compare the two offers in our SC briefs- he had my last one- that he'd discussed with opposing counsel 25 minutes before we started- ready to go and asked to pass up to the Judge. She wasn't stupid- she knew what he was doing. But she just wanted something easy to follow along. Then he was really aggressive and did most of the talking in the SC.

BUT BUT- key for me was that the majority of parenting schedule had been tentatively settled through our PC.

It may be worth it to use a PC for one or two sessions- and this sounds crazy, I know- but maybe invite the gf to attend as well. If it doesn't work- then, yes it was a waste of money. But if it does work? SO. MUCH. SANITY & MONEY. SAVED.

As to all the nitty gritty details. I'm not kidding when I say my lawyer just pushed hard. It wasn't pretty. But I didn't choose him because he was known to a be a nice and reasonable lawyer. That being said- I saw him interact with my ex's lawyer after- they're friends. Their styles are just different.

Also- think about what your ex's motivations are. Divorce is the biggest mind game ever. I knew my ex was motivated by $$$. So I knew if I caved an took $0 for myself, he'd be more inclined to give in on the other areas.

Last edited by iona6656; 08-21-2019 at 11:25 AM.
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  #19  
Old 08-21-2019, 11:53 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
If I can offer a suggestion- don't get caught up in the minutiae. Even if the agreement read as you wanted it to...do you think your ex or his gf are actually going to follow it? Even if it's as clear as day...from what you say- they're not going to care.



My suggestion, for what it's worth, is focus on getting something that



1. clearly shows you have sole custody - with NO restrictions.

2. clearly deals with parenting time

3. clearly sets out the CS amounts and section 7 expenses



All the other stuff- it's noise.



Even our OCL report. My ex disputed it. And while it was instrumental in my securing sole custody...even the judge at our SC (she was really good- Madame Justice Gilmore if anyone is in the Toronto courts) said it was informative but not instructive enough.



Send over another offer. When you get to the SC. Have your lawyer go aggressive and have the offer separate- three copies- ready to give to all parties.



The tactic my lawyer used? He didn't let our judge compare the two offers in our SC briefs- he had my last one- that he'd discussed with opposing counsel 25 minutes before we started- ready to go and asked to pass up to the Judge. She wasn't stupid- she knew what he was doing. But she just wanted something easy to follow along. Then he was really aggressive and did most of the talking in the SC.



BUT BUT- key for me was that the majority of parenting schedule had been tentatively settled through our PC.



It may be worth it to use a PC for one or two sessions- and this sounds crazy, I know- but maybe invite the gf to attend as well. If it doesn't work- then, yes it was a waste of money. But if it does work? SO. MUCH. SANITY & MONEY. SAVED.



As to all the nitty gritty details. I'm not kidding when I say my lawyer just pushed hard. It wasn't pretty. But I didn't choose him because he was known to a be a nice and reasonable lawyer. That being said- I saw him interact with my ex's lawyer after- they're friends. Their styles are just different.



Also- think about what your ex's motivations are. Divorce is the biggest mind game ever. I knew my ex was motivated by $$$. So I knew if I caved an took $0 for myself, he'd be more inclined to give in on the other areas.


Very good advice... my lawyer is friends with the exís as well... exís lawyer uses a newbee but will be the senior guy for a trial I am sure.

I like your sole clause. And will include it.

I keep trying to remember I have sole custody already. For the last 6 years he agreed to. And all the while it worked. I get it he is entitled to want more time. But he should have to do the work to repair his relationship he ruined with our boys.

He can take them for therapy. Great. But fair is us both agreeing to who it is. not he chooses and I follow what therapist says. He put that in there. Thatís nuts.

I gave him opportunity to have input when i chose the current ones and he consistently ignored the requests.

But your right. A lot of it wonít be followed. Although If i donít follow they will point it out at each turn.

Like they even put I canít give my child food at hockey if itís on his time.

This happened once as my son didnít eat breakfast with dad and was feeling sick and hungry. I always have snacks as I know he doesnít feed them properly. So I gave my kid some olives and cheese before he went on the ice for 1.5 hrs. Lol. And they redeemed that in an offer to settle.


I will not give up sole.

I have tried talking to the gf... twice in past 2 months. Her way or highway and she constantly lies and sticks up for ex and makes excuses. Or says lawyers advised them not to do this or that.

Thanks again for all the help.


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  #20  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:51 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
....

Like they even put I canít give my child food at hockey if itís on his time.

This happened once as my son didnít eat breakfast with dad and was feeling sick and hungry. I always have snacks as I know he doesnít feed them properly. So I gave my kid some olives and cheese before he went on the ice for 1.5 hrs. Lol. And they redeemed that in an offer to settle.
This right here sounds like a lawyer tactic. It's called a red herring. Make you riled up about something that is essentially inconsequential and so blatantly offensive that you are distracted from what is more important.

My lawyer and I did the same thing- I said that D3's before and afterschool care must be provided by my mom, at a rate commensurate with our daughter's preschool...it works out to $100 bucks a month for him. He took HUGE issue with it- and his lawyer was like "He will ABSOLUTELY not agree to that- she's not a licensed daycare, etc etc etc". I caved on it- and said the provider will agreed upon by both parties. Do you think I care? I don't. It's a $100/month. Plus, I pay my mom $300/month now- it's in MY budget. Do I care if he will share this with me? No. Not at all.

But my ex and his lawyer focused on that- rather than other more important things- like fighting me that the meeting with our PC when our daughter hits 6 should actually count as material change in circumstances. But he didn't, he was focused on money.

So don't do that. Don't focus on how he's trying to put in weird restrictions....because, play that scenario out. Say you do give your son some food- what's he going to do? take you to court on contempt? Is he going to win?

If you say it creates the opportunity for conflict- well, it sounds like your ex and his gf don't need a clause in an agreement to create that conflict...they're going to do it anyways.

Like Rocksan said to me- her husband's agreement is clear as day- and his ex STILL finds a way to misinterpret it on purpose.

At the beginning of this whole matter- my ex's lawyer- in a really dirty manner- put in writing that my ex is worried about my mental state (re: PPD) because I adamantly refused his genuine offer to help me lose weight I had gained with our daughter. She put that in writing. As a lawyer- I wanted to fly off the handle and get really pissed. I did. But I spoke to a good friend of mine who's a litigator and he said- she's just trying to rattle you- and it's working if you spend an ounce of time and money on getting your lawyer to respond to that shit. He was 100% right.

My long winded point is that you cannot get rattled. It will cost you money and may make you lose focus on what's important.

Last edited by iona6656; 08-21-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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