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  #1  
Old 05-18-2012, 02:42 PM
WorkingDAD WorkingDAD is offline
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Default Nothing like the truth

Hello all
Now when idea of end up with another trial on my hand (as our mommy lying again and again and again) I am thinking of to do something (if I survive of course) with biggest problem in Canadian Family Court (probably in all Canadian courts).

In my view the biggest problem (base on my own experience) is people who lie in court. Second one IMHO is a lawyers who promote conflict instead of work on opposite.


Yes I know the basics of perjury / Justice of Peace and stuff but I think I am not the first one who tried that and will not be last but for some reason in Canada it very hard to do.

So I am looking for any help to start collecting material on the issue.

BTW very good article Nothing like the truth

WD

Joint efforts are welcome
  #2  
Old 05-18-2012, 03:13 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Originally Posted by WorkingDAD View Post
Hello all
Now when idea of end up with another trial on my hand (as our mommy lying again and again and again) I am thinking of to do something (if I survive of course) with biggest problem in Canadian Family Court (probably in all Canadian courts).

In my view the biggest problem (base on my own experience) is people who lie in court. Second one IMHO is a lawyers who promote conflict instead of work on opposite.


Yes I know the basics of perjury / Justice of Peace and stuff but I think I am not the first one who tried that and will not be last but for some reason in Canada it very hard to do.

So I am looking for any help to start collecting material on the issue.

BTW very good article Nothing like the truth

WD

Joint efforts are welcome
From the article:

Lies these days are usually disguised as false accusations, misperceptions or emotional misstatements and talked about in linguistically misleading terms for which the courts have developed an unhealthy tolerance.

I find Dr. Dineen's materials rather thought provoking. Her perspective and view on custody and access evaluations and the use of "psychology in law" is rather refreshing to say the least.

On a side note:

There are far too many people billing themselves as clinicians who practice in the areas of "psychology in law". These "experts" are often the worst egocentric practitioners out there as they "feel" that because they have consulted on "hundreds of cases" that they have some knowledge beyond the facts. These are another set of "professionals" in my opinion who need significantly more governance of how they conduct themselves (OCL and Section 30).

The problem with a lie:

They compound. "Lies have short legs and can only carry you so far in an argument."

The problem with family law is that to get to the "lies" requires a trial and many litigants end prior to getting to trial.

If a litigant refuses disclosure, refuses to consent to disclosure on their affidavit material and refuses to produce their "friends" (witnesses) who have sworn statements to the truth it should be a tell-tail sign that there is a problem.

The truth matters but, in Family Law not so much... More has to be done to sanction the litigants and their negative advocate solicitors for conducting themselves in front of the courts in this manner.

False allegations, based on "emotional reasoning", are abuse.
False allegations should not be tollerated.
The definition of "abuse" both physical and emotional needs definition under the FLR and CLRA and the Divorce Act.
Those who make false allegations should face the same criminal punishments as those who are truly abusive as a result of their lies.

When someone lies in court to "win" what they want or works and conducts themselves in a "tactical manner" against "truisms" to "win" custody and access have demonstrated that they have no problem in abusing there children by trying to take a parent away.

Relevancy, cogency, and FACTS are what custody and access orders should be based on. Not "emotional reasoning" (cognitive distortions), baseless allegations, hearsay and "emotions".

You should have to leave your emotions at the court room door but, for some reason, the courts allow this emotional diatribe to happen for months, even years without addressing the root of the problem.

The "best interests" test doesn't sanction penalties against litigants who miss use (or don't even understand them). They far too often just pat the person who fabricates hearsay and says... "There there... You were worried (anxious) you would lose your children so you lied. We understand. It is a stressful time for everyone this whole separation and divorce thing..."

Anxiety is the real problem before the courts. It is easy for the courts to have high conflict files reviewed by experts who can easily identify anxiety versus "facts".

It is high time that the courts integrate the medical profession PROPERLY into the legal system. This is NOT the OCL or Section 30 evaluators. Evaluators have too much to gain (personal income) in making bad recommendations, discarding evidence and failing to investigate serious matters.

Any professional who bills hours reading over a continuing record and doesn't apply any of the materials they billed outrageous times and rates for reading in their report is no expert in my opinion.

Tayken
  #3  
Old 05-18-2012, 04:42 PM
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hadenough hadenough is offline
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AGREE - AGREE - AGREE ^

WD: thanks for the article reference and sign me up for whatever - I too was dragged into Court and kept there by Lies and a Solicitor (ex's) who perpetuated and encouraged lying.
  #4  
Old 05-18-2012, 05:19 PM
beenthere beenthere is offline
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Wow, were you all married to my ex too? She told so many lies she kept losing track, thank god my wife kept every snot-o-gram she sent and when she tries to deny things I send the " but on this date you said this..." not that it does any good, she just doesn't acknowledge what she doesn't want to hear...which is the TRUTH!
Only one time did I get close to a judge actually smacking her down, I was heading to Afghanistan and she was jerking me around on seeing my child before going. Long story short she was sternly warned by the judge to "stop her obstructionist behaviour". Did it help? No way, she didn't have to pay costs and she kept on being the head spinning nutbar she has always been. She has kept this up for 17 years and not one judge has put a stop to it. I have no faith in the courts, now child heading to University so whole new round of crap about to begin...sigh. Must say I have found lots of good info on here and a few great laughs too (CM story, LOL!)Thanks all!
  #5  
Old 05-18-2012, 05:51 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Wow, were you all married to my ex too? She told so many lies she kept losing track, thank god my wife kept every snot-o-gram she sent and when she tries to deny things I send the " but on this date you said this..." not that it does any good, she just doesn't acknowledge what she doesn't want to hear...which is the TRUTH!
Does the other party also write in "you" statements. You did this to me. You caused this to happen to me.

High conflict people cannot and will not write with "I" statements.

B.I.F.F.

Also, when glairing evidence to their conduct is presented to them the often move into a pattern of avoidance and continually recant their hearsay over and over and over and over again. This is done because they are looking for someone to believe their story, how wronged they were and how you need to be punished.

They look for justice... Not settlement in the courts. Last time I checked it says "Family Law" on the court room door and not "complaints about the other litigant" on the door.

Good Luck!
Tayken
  #6  
Old 05-18-2012, 07:01 PM
ddol1 ddol1 is offline
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"I" and "You" does tell a story.

I have lots to learn here for sure. Tayken - you compelled me to actually get out the application (me) and the Respondants Reply chuck so full of lies, numbers inflated at times over 100% (thank Gosh I have copies of all her financials) ---- But the Application, almost exclusive "I" was used and the Reply; So many "you"s that made it...... I was upset that they basically filled the reply with so much "irrelevant to a no fault divorce" crap and there was not one once of substance that might have got us any closer to not "being forced" to have to litigate. I am told we are just about a simple equalization every time I turn. Her with a lawyer - I just do not understand, I really don't.
  #7  
Old 05-18-2012, 07:38 PM
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CBC's The Fifth Estate tonight is re: Investigating the compelling lies told by con artists. Might be interesting?
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