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Spousal Support Guidelines - Canada - Even Uglier

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  • #76
    Good morning,

    Based on your story here, your username is very fitting.

    1. Unfortunately, many a men have found themselves in this situation / unilateral decision by the other spouse. I mean what are you going to do at this point, force the person to go to work?

    It's a nasty / deceiving move on the part of the partner that pulls this stunt.

    2. Yes, it's a game of tag and the Govt is tagging you as the payor. You almost want to think this person had a hidden agenda all along as to what they will do when the kid/s came along.

    3. To some people, either of those options might be more viable That way the other person gets to get off their @$$ and get a job.

    4. ...not just that, she might even find another smug who is unaware of her past, and take him for a ride too.

    5. Private welfare sounds about right. It does need to change, and make all the lazy / advantage takers realize that as an adult, you shouldn't expect another adult to look after you.

    final note....Do NOT get married, or let sex cloud your judgement.

    Originally posted by ifonlyihadknown View Post
    I'm a little late to this entertaining discussion but will add my 2 cents:

    I am also a payer. Long term, traditional marriage. Ex has a university education and was working full time when we married. Definitely not a gold digger. However, over time things change. Ex had every opportunity to work after kids started school but didn't. I encouraged but no dice.

    Now that the marriage is over, ex gets half the marital assets, that's fair.

    Spousal support is indefinite and more than generous. I'm told that I have responsibilities, I have to work to pay SS. No early retirement for me. I can't change positions for a lower paying one without taking a further financial hit. If I don't pay the full SS, the full power of the state will come down on me. My only out is to become disabled or die. When I retire, I will be on living on CPP and OAS and some small amount of savings. The marriage may be over but financially it continues indefinitely. I have all the responsibility and no rights.

    On the other hand, my ex is now retired, with a full pension (paid by me), and never has to work a day in her life. She hit the jackpot. She gets all the rights and zero responsibility.

    The Divorce Act lists some of the reasons for SS as being,
    (c) relieve any economic hardship of the spouses arising from the breakdown of the marriage; and
    (d) in so far as practicable, promote the economic self-sufficiency of each spouse within a reasonable period of time.
    For practical purposes, due to the divorce, my ex is now immune from any economic hardship, I get to take care of that.
    (d) is a joke as it is almost impossible to enforce and "reasonable period of time" is "indefinite." She has absolutely no reason to try and become self-sufficient.

    So, in my situation, I can't help but agree that SS is a form of forced private welfare. I can see no other way of looking at it.

    Sure, I can take the blame for this but the system is rotten by design. Financially speaking, the less you do in the marriage, the more you get. The harder you work, the more you pay. The longer you are married, the longer and more you pay.

    I would counsel others first of all, don't marry. If you do decide to marry, and your spouse ever stops working or doesn't return to the job market after kids start school, realize that their is a knife poised over your head that can drop any time. Nothing you can do about it. And as time goes on the knife becomes bigger and sharper. At that point your screwed.

    Comment


    • #77
      In this case, there is no malice or bad behaviour on my ex's part. The marriage simply didn't stand the test of time.

      And it's hard to blame her when the system is set up that she doesn't have to work. Who would turn down "Freedom 55"?

      Comment


      • #78
        Perhaps not....but when she told you she wasn't going back to work....you can't help but think that was a calculated move on her part.

        Comment


        • #79
          "Indefinite" does not necessarily mean forever. What is relevant is the "quantum" of support.

          I am not privy to your divorce/separation agreement. Did you not negotiate a step-down SS imputing income to your ex? This would relate to (d) in your points above and is, indeed, entirely enforceable. Of course your agreement has to be written up the correct way. This is a mistake that many people make. Depending upon your situation (age, length of employment, length of marriage, etc) this might be an area to examine.

          Does your agreement specifically indicate that retirement is a material change of circumstances (some people amazingly have in their agreements that it is NOT a material change of circumstances - I suspect that might be in the case of very wealthy individuals)?

          Do not misconstrue "indefinite" with "quantum" as some people end up receiving $1.00/year indefinitely once they are deemed to be self-sufficient. The onus is on you to have in place a well-thought-out agreement which contemplates your plans for retirement.

          Comment


          • #80
            Yes, retirement is in the agreement as a material change of circumstance.

            Comment


            • #81
              It seems to be in your case. Do you plan on coming off the SS you are collecting?

              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              "Indefinite" does not necessarily mean forever. What is relevant is the "quantum" of support.

              I am not privy to your divorce/separation agreement. Did you not negotiate a step-down SS imputing income to your ex? This would relate to (d) in your points above and is, indeed, entirely enforceable. Of course your agreement has to be written up the correct way. This is a mistake that many people make. Depending upon your situation (age, length of employment, length of marriage, etc) this might be an area to examine.

              Does your agreement specifically indicate that retirement is a material change of circumstances (some people amazingly have in their agreements that it is NOT a material change of circumstances - I suspect that might be in the case of very wealthy individuals)?

              Do not misconstrue "indefinite" with "quantum" as some people end up receiving $1.00/year indefinitely once they are deemed to be self-sufficient. The onus is on you to have in place a well-thought-out agreement which contemplates your plans for retirement.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by hopefull View Post
                It seems to be in your case. Do you plan on coming off the SS you are collecting?
                I figure my ex owes me a minimum of 400k so no I do not believe SS will be ended anytime soon. He will either have to cough up the money or pay me indefinitely even if that means sharing his CPP with me.

                Comment


                • #83
                  What you believe he owes you and what is reality are two different things.....you just answered the question, SS is so good that you are not willing to cut the cord.

                  Originally posted by arabian View Post
                  I figure my ex owes me a minimum of 400k so no I do not believe SS will be ended anytime soon. He will either have to cough up the money or pay me indefinitely even if that means sharing his CPP with me.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by hopefull View Post
                    What you believe he owes you and what is reality are two different things.....you just answered the question, SS is so good that you are not willing to cut the cord.
                    Well, arabian's version of reality is the one that's been supported by judge after judge, as her ex keeps getting smacked down in court for his attempts to get out of paying her SS. This suggests that he really did rip her off for a big chunk of the family business and karma is doing what karma does ...

                    Comment

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