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  • Cheaters, sneaks and liars.

    I am rather perplexed at why adultery is not given more consideration as an example of poor parenting. Yes, one may argue that the too have nothing to do with each other but I would think that how you live your life reflects on the values you instill in your children.

    So if you behave in a manor that says lying, cheating, disrespect, and disloyalty is ok. than how can you instill the values of honesty, trust, respect, honour and loyalty?

    Do we parent by "do what I say not what I do" or do we "teach by example?"

    Do you betray just your spouse or do you betray the whole family unit when one cheats?

    JMO if you want to stray, be honest and be brave and leave, then start a new relationship... therefore teaching your kids to face what isn't working head on.

    Opinions?

  • #2
    hard to argue with that logic

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by karmaseeker View Post
      Opinions?
      Just that there are always (at least) 3 sides to every story: His, hers, and the truth - wish is usually somewhere in the middle.

      We are sexual creatures and the drive to mate is stronger than most people think, or will admit. If you're not getting what you need at home, then you will get it somewhere else... eventually.

      Yes, a marriage vow says that you'll be faithful - but it also presupposes that everything will continue going just fine in that department.

      My personal philosophy is that if my spouse "cheats" on me, I need to look at myself, and not her. All I want is honesty ("I cheated" or "I am going to cheat") ... if there's honesty, the rest can be worked out.

      They say that opinions are like assholes, though

      Cheers!

      Gary

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gary M View Post
        Just that there are always (at least) 3 sides to every story: His, hers, and the truth - wish is usually somewhere in the middle.

        We are sexual creatures and the drive to mate is stronger than most people think, or will admit. If you're not getting what you need at home, then you will get it somewhere else... eventually.

        Yes, a marriage vow says that you'll be faithful - but it also presupposes that everything will continue going just fine in that department.

        My personal philosophy is that if my spouse "cheats" on me, I need to look at myself, and not her. All I want is honesty ("I cheated" or "I am going to cheat") ... if there's honesty, the rest can be worked out.

        They say that opinions are like assholes, though

        Cheers!

        Gary

        If they are being honest about the indiscretion than they are showing a capacity for the value of truth.

        Mistakes happen and people can indeed work out a "mistake" because there is a desire to repair what is broken.

        However, there are many that behave like they are justified to have multiple long term affairs, sneakily meeting in car parks and hotels for years on end and not thinking they should be held accountable for such poor choices.

        Often, it is not just their family that is destroyed but the family of their cohort too displacing even more children.

        The "it's all about me, I want my cake and eat it too, and I don't take responsibility for how my choices hurt people" thinking is morally bankrupt.

        I am not just responsible for maintaining integrity in my relationship and family, when single I was responsible for not carrying on with a married man. The "I'm not the one that's married" argument doesn't wash well with me.

        IMHO

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by karmaseeker View Post
          I am rather perplexed at why adultery is not given more consideration as an example of poor parenting. Yes, one may argue that the too have nothing to do with each other but I would think that how you live your life reflects on the values you instill in your children.

          So if you behave in a manor that says lying, cheating, disrespect, and disloyalty is ok. than how can you instill the values of honesty, trust, respect, honour and loyalty?

          Do we parent by "do what I say not what I do" or do we "teach by example?"

          Do you betray just your spouse or do you betray the whole family unit when one cheats?

          JMO if you want to stray, be honest and be brave and leave, then start a new relationship... therefore teaching your kids to face what isn't working head on.

          Opinions?
          Well, my ex's moral compass was definitely broken while we were together. I didn't take his cheating as hurting the kids as they aren't aware of it and I looked at it as he was hurting me, not them. Although, having a mother who felt betrayed and stupid for staying probably wasn't the best either.
          It was his constant absence and choosing drinking and buddies over his family, stealing the kids' b-day/Xmas money (as well as mine) that was sent to us from my family, lying all the time, and in general being a poohead that makes me feel he is not the best role model for my guys. I am trying to instill in them a better respect for women and how honesty is the best policy. They get soooo mad when they're at his house and he starts spinning some lie and they catch him in it, call him on it and he just starts spinning another or accuses them of being disrespectful of him.
          That or he blames me for everything lol

          Comment


          • #6
            If adultery is grounds for poor parenting, then if a married couple are both committing adultery should the CAS apprehend the children because the parents are unfit? If not, why should that affect the status of one parent who is adulterous?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mess View Post
              If adultery is grounds for poor parenting, then if a married couple are both committing adultery should the CAS apprehend the children because the parents are unfit? If not, why should that affect the status of one parent who is adulterous?
              As per usual, you manage to say in few words that which takes me many.

              From now on I'll just wait for you, then append a "Yeah: What Mess said!"



              Cheers!

              Gary

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mess View Post
                If adultery is grounds for poor parenting, then if a married couple are both committing adultery should the CAS apprehend the children because the parents are unfit? If not, why should that affect the status of one parent who is adulterous?

                I don't believe I said anything about "unfit", or the involvement of CAS, or even removing children from the home.

                I believe I said that values need to be taught by example.

                Are values and morals not worthy of consideration in defining good parenting? Or is it simply who can provide physical needs?

                Where do children learn lying is ok?
                Where do children learn empathy and thoughts for how their behavior effect others?
                Where do children learn responsibility and accountability?


                I am not saying people can't make mistakes, learn and grow as people because of them, and use their experience to become excellent teachers for their children. But some people don't learn, don't change, and are IMO very poor moral compasses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Breaking news: People are human. They aren't perfect. They fuck up. They lie. They cheat. They pick their noses. They fart and blame the dog. Get used to it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mess View Post
                    They fart and blame the dog.
                    B-b-b-b-b-but it WAS the dog!

                    It really was....



                    Cheers!

                    Gary

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mess View Post
                      Breaking news: People are human. They aren't perfect. They fuck up. They lie. They cheat. They pick their noses. They fart and blame the dog. Get used to it.
                      Roflmfao!!!!
                      That's sooooo not true! I don't blame the dog!

                      I blame the baby.......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is exactly my ongoing dilemma, and no one I know seems to appreciate it. When one person has been cheating, lying, disloyal, disrespectful and the instigator of the destruction of their marriage and break-up of the family, why do we still consider their parenting ability to be unblemished? What values are they instilling in their children?

                        I want to teach my sons to respect people in general and their spouses, of either gender, in specific. I want to teach them to have integrity, to be honest with themselves and others. What sort of example are they going to have in my ex? Is he going to coach them to lie to me like he does?

                        And most importantly, how do I leave my children with someone I DO NOT trust? Everyone tries to convince me that it's me he acted against, not them, but the heart doesn't differentiate. I've realized that I have NO IDEA what he's capable of. People ask me, "Do you think he would hurt them?" and I'd like to be able to unequivocally say "no" in response, but that's the exact answer I would once have given if they had asked "do you think he'll ever cheat on you?" Now that he's established that his priorities are screwed up, and he's willing to lie to people he cares about to get what he wants, how can he be a proper role model to his sons?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                          This is exactly my ongoing dilemma, and no one I know seems to appreciate it. When one person has been cheating, lying, disloyal, disrespectful and the instigator of the destruction of their marriage and break-up of the family, why do we still consider their parenting ability to be unblemished? What values are they instilling in their children?

                          I want to teach my sons to respect people in general and their spouses, of either gender, in specific. I want to teach them to have integrity, to be honest with themselves and others. What sort of example are they going to have in my ex? Is he going to coach them to lie to me like he does?

                          And most importantly, how do I leave my children with someone I DO NOT trust? Everyone tries to convince me that it's me he acted against, not them, but the heart doesn't differentiate. I've realized that I have NO IDEA what he's capable of. People ask me, "Do you think he would hurt them?" and I'd like to be able to unequivocally say "no" in response, but that's the exact answer I would once have given if they had asked "do you think he'll ever cheat on you?" Now that he's established that his priorities are screwed up, and he's willing to lie to people he cares about to get what he wants, how can he be a proper role model to his sons?
                          I can understand where you are coming from. I want my guys to grow up and be men like my hubby and father are. Honest, hardworking, dependable, funny and all around great guys to be friends or spouses with. The idea that they might grow up and act like my ex breaks my heart. But if I even suggest that he is a poor role model to him he flips out. He thinks that because he is now starting to pay attention to them after years of neglect and is finally paying support (even though he keeps trying to get out of it)that it automatically makes him an amazing father and the past should be forgotten. Every angry email he sends me is filled with rants about his rights and his time, but never about what is best for the boys. When they are upset with him and tell him they don't want to go there I get rants about how I am alienating them, how this is all my fault and I am ruining his relationship with them when I've done nothing by try to be accomodating. The guy tells the kids about how he used to have to practise lying to me because I was always so good at catching him at it. He thought they would think it was kool. They were so disgusted with that they came home and freaked out.
                          It is horrible to hear my kids say things like "Dad's an idiot. Dad's liar. Dad's a newb. I want to call Dad a name but it's a bad word. I don't care if Dad's sad, he made me cry and didn't care so why should I care if he cries? I caught Dad in another lie and he got mad at me when I called him on it and yelled at me"
                          What do you say to that?
                          "Yes he's an idiot. Look what he threw away because he thinks with his penis. 3 amazing boys. But he's your father so you owe him the respect he never shows you." Yeah, that'd go over well. Drives me nuts.
                          My current spouse was at my 15 year old's basketball tournament cheering him on a couple years back. His coach said it was great that his Dad was there to see him play. My son replied "He's not my dad. He's nothing like my dad. My father's a liar"
                          Is it wrong to hope that maybe it's a good thing they see how he is so they learn from it and be better men for it?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mess View Post
                            Breaking news: People are human. They aren't perfect. They fuck up. They lie. They cheat. They pick their noses. They fart and blame the dog.
                            Are you really equating adultery with farting or picking your nose?

                            Get used to it.
                            Yeah, no point trying really or aspiring for loyalty.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by karmaseeker View Post
                              I am rather perplexed at why adultery is not given more consideration as an example of poor parenting.
                              Adultery is poor parenting. But to which forum do you refer? The court? The church? The family? The community?

                              If it's the courts, well they don't really have the luxury of ensuring that the children's moral compass is working correctly. The court has limited resources and can only be concerned with the lower levels of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs:



                              If it's those other forums, well I think they do give consideration to adultery as it relates to parenting. And those forums should provide the moral compass. Not the court.
                              Last edited by dadtotheend; 04-24-2011, 09:20 AM.

                              Comment

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