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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 12-07-2020, 01:15 AM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is offline
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Default Financial disclosure and Child support

My ex and I have been living separately for about 4 years after I changed the locks on the MH. He has been paying all expenses for the MH, 100% of s7 expenses for 2 children and I get a few thousand dollars a month that is considered child support since there is no formal separation agreement. I started a new business with my new boyfriend and now my ex wants to force me to sell the MH and for me to disclose the new business financials but I don't want him to see how much my new partner makes since we don't live together yet. How can I stop this from happening? Ex is threatening to take me to court. My boyfriend is getting paid from the business but it's not profitable enough for both of us to draw a a full salary (i make 1/3 of what i used to make).

Can I stop my ex from selling the house. It's only in his name even though i live here and value increased 200k+. Do I get the increase in the value of the house?
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2020, 10:11 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue22 View Post
My ex and I have been living separately for about 4 years after I changed the locks on the MH.
You should never have done this and it could come back to bite you.

Quote:
He has been paying all expenses for the MH, 100% of s7 expenses for 2 children and I get a few thousand dollars a month that is considered child support since there is no formal separation agreement.
He can request a recalculation as well as occupancy costs (ie. Rent) for the years you lived there and he paid.

Quote:
I started a new business with my new boyfriend and now my ex wants to force me to sell the MH and for me to disclose the new business financials but I don't want him to see how much my new partner makes since we don't live together yet. How can I stop this from happening?
Provide them. If you dont want to share this info, take your name off the business.

Quote:
Ex is threatening to take me to court. My boyfriend is getting paid from the business but it's not profitable enough for both of us to draw a a full salary (i make 1/3 of what i used to make).
This is a little more complicated. Do you have shared off set custody? If yes then he can claim you are purposely underemployed and have an income imputed to you for offset support calculations and section 7.

If you have full custody then he still has to pay and explain why he never sought 50/50. Either way he could file for a formal agreement that outlines what he is to pay.

Quote:
Can I stop my ex from selling the house. It's only in his name even though i live here and value increased 200k+. Do I get the increase in the value of the house?
This has many layers to it. I believe you are entitled to 50% of the value of the house on the date of separation. He can force the sale of the house as well as demand half of his expenses to cover the costs back which cuts into your share. This could end up costing you anywhere from $50,000 to 100,000 especially if you both dig in. At this point you have been living for free in his house for four years. He was equally as wrong for not dealing with it four years ago but probably didnt think it would go this far or that you might reconcile. Either way, waiting was a mistake.

Your best bet would be to sell the house, take your share any buy something you can afford and be done with it. Also be wary of starting a business with someone new. You are not married or have a formal salary from the business. You have kids to look after and your own needs. Unless you are going to be permanently employed by this business I think it is a bad idea.


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  #3  
Old 12-07-2020, 01:13 PM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is offline
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Thank you for the response!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
You should never have done this and it could come back to bite you.

He left and took the kids with him and I didn't want him to take them again so I changed the locks.

He can request a recalculation as well as occupancy costs (ie. Rent) for the years you lived there and he paid.

How much rent would I need to pay? Does this happen all the time?

Provide them. If you don�t want to share this info, take your name off the business.

My ex knows this is my business already. I told him in writing and then I tried to backtrack by putting it in someone else's name but I don't think that looks good.

This is a little more complicated. Do you have shared off set custody? If yes then he can claim you are purposely underemployed and have an income imputed to you for offset support calculations and section 7.

We have 50/50. I used to make 150k+ but I am making only around 50k now since my business is still new but my new partner makes full salary + expenses. I didn't need the money since most of the expenses were paid by the ex.

If you have full custody then he still has to pay and explain why he never sought 50/50. Either way he could file for a formal agreement that outlines what he is to pay.

I do not have full custody. Should I try to get full custody? Is it too late after 4 years?


This has many layers to it. I believe you are entitled to 50% of the value of the house on the date of separation. He can force the sale of the house as well as demand half of his expenses to cover the costs back which cuts into your share. This could end up costing you anywhere from $50,000 to 100,000 especially if you both dig in. At this point you have been living for free in his house for four years. He was equally as wrong for not dealing with it four years ago but probably didn�t think it would go this far or that you might reconcile. Either way, waiting was a mistake.

His lawyer has been trying to get me to sell the house for years but no formal request was put in via the courts. Can this be used against me? I didn't' want to sell because I needed some time to get back on my feet. His brother also loaned money to us to buy the house and has an official lien on the title of the house but I think it was paid back but my ex and his brother are lying and saying this is still a debt. How can I prove this was paid back?

Your best bet would be to sell the house, take your share any buy something you can afford and be done with it. Also be wary of starting a business with someone new. You are not married or have a formal salary from the business. You have kids to look after and your own needs. Unless you are going to be permanently employed by this business I think it is a bad idea.

I am the majority owner of this business. I can't afford to buy anything where we live. My ex is an accountant making about 500k a year. My daughter has disabilities and her expenses are 100k+ but I didn't have to pay for anything and my ex never asked but I can't afford to contribute anything since I am also in debt


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  #4  
Old 12-07-2020, 01:47 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Yowza, your case is ugly and you need to do some serious thinking here on what is the most important to you. Spoiler alert: it isn't a house.

Quote:
He left and took the kids with him and I didn't want him to take them again so I changed the locks.
You should have gotten a lawyer at that point and started the process for written custody. If you had done so, you would not be in the position you are in now. But since hindsight is 20/20, you have to deal with the situation now. He will argue you changed the locks, you will argue he took the kids, a judge will reprimand both of you for being silly and this will just go round in circles costing more and more money. Admit you both were wrong and put your thinking cap on.

Quote:
How much rent would I need to pay? Does this happen all the time?
Look up occupation rent or matrimonial home in this forum and see what comes up. For the most part you will have to calculate half the expenses for the past four years and determine what that monthly cost is. Then subtract that from what he paid you in child support. That should tell you what you owed him (or what was covered) for those years. If he made 500k a year then his share of child support is much higher and could have covered your costs which you will use in your argument. Again, the back and forth arguing costs money.

Quote:
My ex knows this is my business already. I told him in writing and then I tried to backtrack by putting it in someone else's name but I don't think that looks good.
Then you have to provide him with full business info. It's your business, you share that info. You lost your right to protect your new partner when you a) opened a business with him and b) put him on the name of it. Your ex is within his rights to seek details on the business since it is your business.

Quote:
We have 50/50. I used to make 150k+ but I am making only around 50k now since my business is still new but my new partner makes full salary + expenses. I didn't need the money since most of the expenses were paid by the ex.
And this is where it gets ugly. You quit a job paying you about three times more than your current income for no other reason than you had someone paying the bills. Technically you had off-set so you should have been paying each other. If he has a good lawyer he will a) demand an income be imputed to you and at $150k a year he will likely get it and b) demand repayment for the overpayment of child support and section 7 expenses. Even if he has a lawyer with half a brain this will be requested. Again, get your calculator out and start tabulating. This is going to cost you at least $50,000 to fight if he digs in.

Quote:
I do not have full custody. Should I try to get full custody? Is it too late after 4 years?
Too late, you have status quo now so there would have to be an extreme situation (i.e. he was arrested for molestation or murder) to have the kids taken from him. Not to mention this would be a really shitty thing to fight for after four years and because you want to keep a house.

Quote:
His lawyer has been trying to get me to sell the house for years but no formal request was put in via the courts. Can this be used against me?
Anything can be used against you in court, it's all dependent on the strength of the argument and the judge on your case. The bigger question is, do you want to pay for mudslinging or do you want to pay to get an order in place? Mudslinging is expensive. Not to mention that if this goes to trial, the loser could be on the hook for costs. You should have considered selling the house when asked or considered making an agreement to deal with the matrimonial home. Your best bet is to look at the current situation, what the worst case scenario is (you lose and have to pay your legal bills, his legal bills and you lose any amount in the house).

Quote:
I didn't' want to sell because I needed some time to get back on my feet.
If you were earning $150,000 a year this may be hard to prove but this will be something you have to have in an argument with proof.

Quote:
His brother also loaned money to us to buy the house and has an official lien on the title of the house but I think it was paid back but my ex and his brother are lying and saying this is still a debt. How can I prove this was paid back?
You can either speak to the bank (which may be difficult if he is on the title only) or subpoena the records or title. You could also go to your local land registry office and request a property perspective to see what loans are against title. That may help as well.

Quote:
I am the majority owner of this business. I can't afford to buy anything where we live. My ex is an accountant making about 500k a year. My daughter has disabilities and her expenses are 100k+ but I didn't have to pay for anything and my ex never asked but I can't afford to contribute anything since I am also in debt
Look, your case is a mess because of decisions you both made. If you were making $150,000 a year and decided to dump it either before or after separation to open a business then you made a bad decision. Your first priority was your kids. It doesn't matter what happened, you now have to fix this mess you both go into. You are looking at having to answer for why you quit a high paying job to make no money and have no benefits and why you have failed to work out an arrangement for things. More than likely with his income the way it is, the costs will be covered but by holding onto a home he isn't living in, he gives away any ability to do anything else. You are in living in his property which he wants to sell and be done with. He is well within his rights to do so.

To start you will need to sit down and make some serious calculations of what the costs were at your current salary and what the costs are at your previous salary. Then what the value of the home was on marriage and separation dates and estimate half that value. It can be ballpark if that helps. From there you need to determine what is worth it for you.


You are calculating what is called "equalization" which means everything you had on marriage date and everything you had on date of separation. Go online and get a financial statement form and fill that out if necessary. This includes loans/debts and assets. If he had a pension, you can estimate. In fact all of your numbers will probably be estimates. That will help you determine what you should have split on date of separation. That will give you a good idea of what your "equity" from the marriage is and how much money you have. My numbers for a legal battle will cut into that.

His lawyer will advise him to file a motion to order the sale of the home and then you will have the added cost of legal representation. Your best bet is to crunch the numbers and then go from there. You may have to get a job and let your partner run the business. You may also need to rent for a period of time until you can get on your feet. Either way, if this gets pushed to court you will not have the luxury of sitting back and waiting.

This all sounds awful and scary but you have an opportunity to get in front of this (so to speak) before it gets ugly and expensive. One of the key terms in Family Law is unreasonable behaviour. Keep that in mind, be reasonable and make an offer.

You should also get a lawyer.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2020, 05:51 PM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Yowza, your case is ugly and you need to do some serious thinking here on what is the most important to you. Spoiler alert: it isn't a house.



You should have gotten a lawyer at that point and started the process for written custody. If you had done so, you would not be in the position you are in now. But since hindsight is 20/20, you have to deal with the situation now. He will argue you changed the locks, you will argue he took the kids, a judge will reprimand both of you for being silly and this will just go round in circles costing more and more money. Admit you both were wrong and put your thinking cap on.

I did have a lawyer but he wanted to take my ex to court right away and was very aggressive and told me I would get almost anything I want since I was the one living in the MH with the kids and by default primary custody of the kids. My ex and I signed an an interim agreement for 60/40 but he somehow managed to make it 50/50. The lawyer just kept sending letters back and forth and it ended up costing me over 50k when I was starting my business

Look up occupation rent or matrimonial home in this forum and see what comes up. For the most part you will have to calculate half the expenses for the past four years and determine what that monthly cost is. Then subtract that from what he paid you in child support. That should tell you what you owed him (or what was covered) for those years. If he made 500k a year then his share of child support is much higher and could have covered your costs which you will use in your argument. Again, the back and forth arguing costs money.

I did do this based on the information you gave me (thank you so much). I did a basic search on what support he would owe me and at the low end (after him paying for mortgage, bills, section 7, etc, and what I was making 4 years ago, he would be meeting the minimum threshold for the low range of support

Then you have to provide him with full business info. It's your business, you share that info. You lost your right to protect your new partner when you a) opened a business with him and b) put him on the name of it. Your ex is within his rights to seek details on the business since it is your business.

Thank you. I didn't know my ex could get my new partner's information. Can I get his new partner's financial information too even if she isn't working for his business?

And this is where it gets ugly. You quit a job paying you about three times more than your current income for no other reason than you had someone paying the bills. Technically you had off-set so you should have been paying each other. If he has a good lawyer he will a) demand an income be imputed to you and at $150k a year he will likely get it and b) demand repayment for the overpayment of child support and section 7 expenses. Even if he has a lawyer with half a brain this will be requested. Again, get your calculator out and start tabulating. This is going to cost you at least $50,000 to fight if he digs in.

This is what I am scared of. After I do calculations and I get paid out for the house I will get less than 300k in equalization. I am already 100k+ in debt. Nobody will loan me any money but I really want a house for my kids to live.

Too late, you have status quo now so there would have to be an extreme situation (i.e. he was arrested for molestation or murder) to have the kids taken from him. Not to mention this would be a really shitty thing to fight for after four years and because you want to keep a house.

My ex is a good father. He was not a good husband but he I feel like he is stalking me and hiring a PI to watch me. If I have proof of that can I use that against him or press charges on invasion of privacy? Will this help me get the kids full custody?


Anything can be used against you in court, it's all dependent on the strength of the argument and the judge on your case. The bigger question is, do you want to pay for mudslinging or do you want to pay to get an order in place? Mudslinging is expensive. Not to mention that if this goes to trial, the loser could be on the hook for costs. You should have considered selling the house when asked or considered making an agreement to deal with the matrimonial home. Your best bet is to look at the current situation, what the worst case scenario is (you lose and have to pay your legal bills, his legal bills and you lose any amount in the house).

I want an order in place so he will leave me alone (he sees the kids a lot. I don't' want him to come by the house everyday because I want my new partner to move in but I don't know if that is allowed since its the MH

If you were earning $150,000 a year this may be hard to prove but this will be something you have to have in an argument with proof.


You can either speak to the bank (which may be difficult if he is on the title only) or subpoena the records or title. You could also go to your local land registry office and request a property perspective to see what loans are against title. That may help as well.

The bank doesn't have any records. Its just on the mortgage title. Do I have a good case if my ex can't prove money was loaned to us to buy the house?

Look, your case is a mess because of decisions you both made. If you were making $150,000 a year and decided to dump it either before or after separation to open a business then you made a bad decision. Your first priority was your kids. It doesn't matter what happened, you now have to fix this mess you both go into. You are looking at having to answer for why you quit a high paying job to make no money and have no benefits and why you have failed to work out an arrangement for things. More than likely with his income the way it is, the costs will be covered but by holding onto a home he isn't living in, he gives away any ability to do anything else. You are in living in his property which he wants to sell and be done with. He is well within his rights to do so.

I understand. Thank you for the advice. I just wanted a stable environment for my kids but I didn't know it would lead into such a big mess. My ex tried to get me to sell within the first 6 months of him leaving but my babies were so small so I just stuck to my guns and stayed here even though my lawyer told me I should sell.

To start you will need to sit down and make some serious calculations of what the costs were at your current salary and what the costs are at your previous salary. Then what the value of the home was on marriage and separation dates and estimate half that value. It can be ballpark if that helps. From there you need to determine what is worth it for you.

You are calculating what is called "equalization" which means everything you had on marriage date and everything you had on date of separation. Go online and get a financial statement form and fill that out if necessary. This includes loans/debts and assets. If he had a pension, you can estimate. In fact all of your numbers will probably be estimates. That will help you determine what you should have split on date of separation. That will give you a good idea of what your "equity" from the marriage is and how much money you have. My numbers for a legal battle will cut into that.

I think the equity I will receive is quite low. I think he paid over 200k (after interest and principal payment) down from the mortgage since he left. Does he get all that money back from the sale of the house and I am stuck using the date of separation value?

His lawyer will advise him to file a motion to order the sale of the home and then you will have the added cost of legal representation. Your best bet is to crunch the numbers and then go from there. You may have to get a job and let your partner run the business. You may also need to rent for a period of time until you can get on your feet. Either way, if this gets pushed to court you will not have the luxury of sitting back and waiting.

COVID19 will make it difficult for me to get something similar to my previous paying job. My business right now is also suffering. Will the courts really input income to me at 150k+ if I have been only making around 50k for the last 3 years?

This all sounds awful and scary but you have an opportunity to get in front of this (so to speak) before it gets ugly and expensive. One of the key terms in Family Law is unreasonable behaviour. Keep that in mind, be reasonable and make an offer.

You should also get a lawyer.
I have a lawyer but I don't think she is very good. She tells me to sell the house and provide financial disclosure but I don't think it's a good idea to give away the leverage I have on my ex


I know all of this sounds very selfish of me but my ex is a control freak and he wants to destroy me.
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:16 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Default Financial disclosure and Child support

Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue22 View Post
I have a lawyer but I don't think she is very good. She tells me to sell the house and provide financial disclosure but I don't think it's a good idea to give away the leverage I have on my ex


I know all of this sounds very selfish of me but my ex is a control freak and he wants to destroy me.

Um, your lawyer is right. You dont have leverage, its his property. He can file to have it sold and would probably win. Not to mention that you are continuing to dig a deep hole you may not get out of. You quit a well paying job to open a business with a new partner, you remained in a house you dont own and you are refusing to negotiate.

Your ex may be a control freak in your eyes but to the court he could be an ex husband seeking to divest an asset he no longer has access to. How would you feel if the roles were reversed? I dont think you would appreciate paying full costs for a home you dont live in but continue to hold a mortgage on. Depending on the size of the mortgage he may not be able to get his own property or even renegotiate his current one.

He is entitled to disclosure of your business and to demand the house be sold. Dont waste money fighting a losing battle. If you were a man you would have lost four years ago.


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Old 12-07-2020, 06:29 PM
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I don't think my ex can get another mortgage. He has been forced to rent for the last 4 years since my name is also on the MH mortgage. That is all the leverage I have right now. When things were still "neutral" between my ex husband and I he asked to borrow money against the HELOC to avoid depleting his investments but I said no since I thought he was financially in trouble and it would make the decision a bit harder for him to bring me to court if he didn't have money but it seems like he turned things around. It is really important to me to be able to have a house. It is not fair that my ex will be able to purchase a nice 3 or 4 bedroom house as soon as my name is off the mortgage while I am stuck renting. We were married for 12 years! [/B]
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:48 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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I don't think my ex can get another mortgage. He has been forced to rent for the last 4 years since my name is also on the MH mortgage.
Your name on the mortgage means you share the debt. If he chooses to stop paying the mortgage you are responsible for 100% of it. Thats a GIANT risk you are taking when you are in a volatile financial position.

Quote:
That is all the leverage I have right now.
You have no leverage. None. Nada. No leverage. Repeat that to yourself, you have no leverage.

Quote:
It is really important to me to be able to have a house.
Then buy him out. Go and get a mortgage and buy out his share. Or determine how much the equalization is and how much of his investments he had on the date of separation you would have been entitled to and work out a deal to assume the property. Thats your only way of holding onto the house right now. If you cant afford a mortgage then you cant afford a house. I go back to my previous comment about quitting your job. You made a risky financial decision and it didnt pay off.

Quote:
It is not fair that my ex will be able to purchase a nice 3 or 4 bedroom house as soon as my name is off the mortgage while I am stuck renting. We were married for 12 years! [/B]
Its not fair that he has to continue to pay for a house he doesnt live in or have to rent because his ex is squatting in his property.

Its also not fair that he has been subsidizing your lifestyle so you could quit your job and start a business with a new partner. He worked to get to where he is and earns a high salary as a result. You could have kept your 150k a year job, settled up the house situation and moved on accordinglyyou didnt.

You are being completely unreasonable and need to give your head a shake!


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Old 12-07-2020, 08:49 PM
trueblue22 trueblue22 is offline
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Your name on the mortgage means you share the debt. If he chooses to stop paying the mortgage you are responsible for 100% of it. Thats a GIANT risk you are taking when you are in a volatile financial position.

Wouldn't I be only 50% responsible? If I start paying for mortgage do I get the increase in the value of the house? That extra 100k would help me a lot.

You have no leverage. None. Nada. No leverage. Repeat that to yourself, you have no leverage.



Then buy him out. Go and get a mortgage and buy out his share. Or determine how much the equalization is and how much of his investments he had on the date of separation you would have been entitled to and work out a deal to assume the property. Thats your only way of holding onto the house right now. If you can�t afford a mortgage then you can�t afford a house. I go back to my previous comment about quitting your job. You made a risky financial decision and it didn�t pay off.

I can't get a mortgage and no bank will give me a big enough loan to buy him out. I have too much debt. Can I claim interest on the equalization he owes me during the last 4 years? I am trying to get back on my feet but I don't know how much I can do without longer term support from my ex. I want him to give me spousal and child support until both kids turn 18 but is that unreasonable?


It�s not fair that he has to continue to pay for a house he doesn�t live in or have to rent because his ex is squatting in his property.

It�s also not fair that he has been subsidizing your lifestyle so you could quit your job and start a business with a new partner. He worked to get to where he is and earns a high salary as a result. You could have kept your 150k a year job, settled up the house situation and moved on accordingly�you didn�t.

You are being completely unreasonable and need to give your head a shake!

I spoke to some friends and they told me I was being reasonable and they all got to keep their house with high levels of support. I don't understand why that doesn't apply to me. I met him just when he was starting out as an accountant and paid off some of his student loans with my savings. Does that not mean anything?


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I am really not trying to be selfish but I am worried about the amount of spousal support I am going to get. I am going to be living a very different lifestyle than what I am used to.
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:13 PM
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Default Financial disclosure and Child support

Quote:
Wouldn't I be only 50% responsible?
If he says fuck it Im not paying anymore you pay 100%. The bank goes after the two people on the loan and you are the other one if he says hes not paying.



Quote:
If I start paying for mortgage do I get the increase in the value of the house? That extra 100k would help me a lot.
No. The date of separation is when the clock stops. If you put money into the house to increase the value like renovations etc. You would have to get an appraisal done to see what that may have contributed to the increase in value but truly it will be minimal. You could negotiate that extra $100,000 by saying you will sell immediately but again, if you fight him, that 100 grand starts getting chipped away.



Quote:
Ican't get a mortgage and no bank will give me a big enough loan to buy him out. I have too much debt.
Why on earth did you quit a good paying job to open a business that pays you nothing AND do so with someone who gets paid? This financial mess is your doing and your ex is being held accountable for it. Again, what would you say if it was your ex doing this to you? Hes not trying to destroy you, hes trying to remove you from his vein. He is not responsible for you anymore.



Quote:
Can I claim interest on the equalization he owes me during the last 4 years?
Doubtful



Quote:
I am trying to get back on my feet but I don't know how much I can do without longer term support from my ex. I want him to give me spousal and child support until both kids turn 18 but is that unreasonable?
Again, why did you give up a good paying job and start a business while someone else was paying your way? This is unreasonable and you need to start looking at things realistically. You may not even be entitled to spousal support. He isnt obligated to support you if so. Plus he can argue you are purposely underemployed and able to earn a high salary. You have had four years to get your shit together and have done nothing but make it worse. Put your big girl pants on and get your finances in order.



Quote:
I spoke to some friends and they told me I was being reasonable and they all got to keep their house with high levels of support. I don't understand why that doesn't apply to me. I met him just when he was starting out as an accountant and paid off some of his student loans with my savings. Does that not mean anything?
Your friends are not lawyers or experts in family law. They also arent in your marriage. They could all have unique situations where they didnt earn as much for various reasons or they have different entitlements. Do not take legal advice from your friends or assume your situation is like theirs. If you paid his loans off before marriage then that was a mistake. If you paid them off after marriage then it goes into equalization.



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Iam really not trying to be selfish but I am worried about the amount of spousal support I am going to get. I am going to be living a very different lifestyle than what I am used to.
This is without a doubt the most selfish statement I have read on this forum. I also note that note once have you mentioned what is best for your kids—this is all about you and your lifestyle.

Last edited by rockscan; 12-07-2020 at 10:18 PM.
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