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  • Mediation shit show

    Well mediation is scheduled in the next few weeks and the bullshit runneth over. The dark side are really outdoing themselves. They have been busy hiding assets, selling off significant matrimonial assets ( despite a court order they could not do so without my written permission), putting assets in other family members names, removing the children from
    His will and placing extended family members there instead, ignoring our disclosure requests and of course .... suggesting we should cancel said mediation date once again for the umpteenth time as they will not be ready.

    Their shenanigans are so entertaining I feel I should be selling tickets and popcorn so that others might enjoy the show.

    I have no intention of cancelling the mediation date if only to walk in, smile, bat my eyelashes and say. “ Gee you’re not prepared? I was. Let’s call this a fail and see you at arbitration “

  • #2
    BINDING arbitration

    you go girl!

    Comment


    • #3
      My mediation was a shit show too. I finally get there after 6 years of bull crap stalling from the other side and over $120,000 of legal fees. Do I hear lawyers racking up billable hours??? A verbal agreement was close but needed a follow up call in 30 days. A month goes by and other side claims they not ready to present written proposal. Another 20 days goes by and written proposal arrives. They add more money they want me to pay!!! It was not discussed in the mediation. So naturally, I'm not going to agree. Other side says after another two weeks to put my refusal in writing. So now waiting for other side to counter offer. There would be no refusal and counter offer if they had just proposed what was verbally agreed to on mediation 3 fu**n months ago. It would have been finally over. All to bill for more hours is all I can think of. Pieces of shit! Good news is I expected this so it was no surprise.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by arabian View Post
        BINDING arbitration
        Unless you are rich, binding arbitration is ridiculous.

        Trials are already binding arbitration, but the arbiter is free. Spending tens of thousands on a judge doesn't make sense when you can get one that's covered by taxpayer dollars.

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        • #5
          In Alberta binding arbitration is conducted by judges and you only pay for your respective lawyers.

          I hear what you are saying, but as evidenced by this forum, people seem to find money to schlep back and forth to these "case conferences" or "mediation" sessions which are quite costly if you have a lawyer representing you. I think Ontario lawyers don't push for arbitration because they really don't know much about it. It will evolve in Ontario once people figure out that no, they don't have to go to the CC route and instead get a binding judgement. I believe that most people who are unwilling to settle reasonably, usually just want the theatrics of having someone tell them they are right and the other person is wrong anyhow (personal opinion).

          I think going to binding arbitration after 1 or 2 4-way meetings is prudent. You don't have witnesses at arbitration and evidence is presented 30 days prior for judge to read over. If the two parties can't come to an agreement within a specified amount of time 1 - 3 days (typically) then judge/arbitration makes ruling. Way cheaper and way faster... and people's egos are assuaged to a point in that the arbitrator make the decision.

          Non-binding arbitration is merely the case-conference thing that you have in Ontario I believe.... back and forth useless non-binding negotiation.

          All in all, lawyers make money when things are drawn out. It isn't surprising that binding arbitration is not very popular with legal people in Ontario.

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          • #6
            Married 30 years. No children as part of divorce proceeding. Ex and I were full partners in a business. One cart wheeled in by my lawyer of company files which both parties referenced (we had no problem with that).

            Approximate costs:

            Lawyer's fees for 1 day of Arbitration (5,000 - 6,000)
            Application/filing stuff & preparation (3,500)


            All-in-all I think it was only around 10k or less. It took 1 day and that included 2 smoke breaks and 1 hr for lunch (judge told us that 5 days had been reserved?) Conducted in a conference room of the local court house. At the end of day we went up the elevator to a court room where robed judge pronounced us divorced and read decision. We receive a print-out of divorce order the same day.

            Simple.

            Had we gone through the trial thing it would easily have cost over 50k.

            Trick is - both parties have to agree to BINDING arbitration at the start.

            I think people have to DIRECT their lawyers. My lawyer told me at the time that it was much more beneficial for him to expedite our divorce and get referrals from my friends than to drag it out. Hahaha. He was correct. He is a very busy lawyer with a thriving practice. Same lawyer has 'had my back' when I needed assistance when I moved to another province. I have never received a bill from him for that assistance.

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            • #7
              The reason I agreed to med/arb is because the dark side kept stalling and when we finally had a few TMC conferences his lawyer pulled a dirty. Told the judge our trial would take 22 days. My lawyer estimated 4-5 days. Judge refused to put us on the trial list as long as the dark side insisted they needed 22 days.
              I’m not at all confident in the mediation process but apparently you have to go through it first to get to binding arbitration. My STBX is coming to the table with dirty hands so I plan on calling an end to the mediation within minutes of arriving so we can go straight to arbitration. I want this resolved. This way they can’t delay and wiggle out of it anymore.

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              • #8
                I certainly didn't have to go through mediation prior to binding arbitration. Different province perhaps different rules?

                I met once in a 4-way meeting with my lawyer, his lawyer and the two of us. There was some back and forth communication between lawyers. Then binding arbitration agreed to. Of course throughout this time I was litigating with ex on other legal matters (corporate and criminal).

                I abhor delays and incompetence. Lawyer was fully accountable to me throughout process. I peppered lawyer with procedural questions and did my own research. I listened to many people who had been bled dry by lawyers. Had advice from some good people that I golfed with (retired family court judge and retired senior lawyer - they gave me fantastic advice on how to select lawyer).

                My biggest problems occurred after the divorce was finalized. Ex took me to court for over 10 years trying to have divorce decision overturned. Ex has used up all of his 9 lives now I believe. Emotional roller coaster for sure for many years but now I've got it down to merely form filling if/when he files again. He's due to do it again this year. I have my binders close by and ready to copy-paste.

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                • #9
                  Sounds like it was more of the fact he couldn’t let you go and move on with his life. Keeping the conflict going is a way of keeping the relationship going.

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                  • #10
                    So, in Alberta, binding arbitration is just a trial without witnesses?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Janus View Post
                      So, in Alberta, binding arbitration is just a trial without witnesses?
                      https://albertacourts.ca/pc/areas-of...on-tracks/bjdr

                      BJDR (binding judicial dispute resolution)

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                      • #12
                        I read the link. Seems like you can bring witnesses if you want. I fail to see how this is much different than a trial. You also seem to lose your right to appeal, which sounds a little scary.

                        Anyhow Arabian, you should probably qualify your arbitration recommendations. Maybe "If in Alberta, you should consider arbitration". Recommending arbitration to people in Ontario is irresponsible because here arbitration is just really expensive trial.

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                        • #13
                          True. However, there are many people tuning into this forum who are not from Ontario. I still feel that BINDING Arbitration is worth looking into regardless of where one lives.

                          Witnesses - can be included if both sides agree at start to include witnesses. Typically, if parties want to go that route then trial is recommended.

                          The revolving doors of 'case conferences' in Ontario, if represented by lawyer, isn't cheap. In Ontario, case conferences seem to be mandatory (going the trial route). Most people that I read about on this forum (in Ontario) attend case conferences for several years. I believe binding arbitration forces people to get their acts together, knowing there is a deadline and, ultimately, if the two parties can't come to agreement then the arbitrator will make a decision (just like a trial) however, the decision is delivered many years sooner.

                          Binding arbitration = you pay for your own lawyer and share costs of arbitrator/judge in Ontario no?

                          So... might be interesting to compare cost someone spends in the case conference merry-go-round to arbitration. Lawyers, of course, would not recommend the arbitration route because it would cut into their revenue a/o lawyer has no experience with binding arbitration (but they won't admit this).

                          Binding arbitration decision, if error in law by arbitrator/judge, may be appealed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by arabian View Post
                            The revolving doors of 'case conferences' in Ontario, if represented by lawyer, isn't cheap.
                            Who on earth has more than one case conference?

                            You have a case conference, and then sometimes you get a series of motions. People who are blasting each other with multiple motions probably yearn for a trial anyway.

                            Binding arbitration = you pay for your own lawyer and share costs of arbitrator/judge in Ontario no?
                            Yup, and that arbiter ain't cheap. Tens of thousands of dollars of not cheap.

                            Again, now that you have explained that taxpayers cover it in Alberta, I see why you promote it so much, but I still maintain that you have to be very wealthy or insane to go that route in Ontario.

                            So... might be interesting to compare cost someone spends in the case conference merry-go-round to arbitration.
                            Could be tricky. I remember somebody telling me that midwives were better because obgyns had a higher death rate. The flaw there of course is assuming that the populations seen by both groups is the same.

                            Private/Public schools pull the same magic trick. Private schools do better for less money because they don't teach the asshole kid with multiple learning disabilities who needs a staff of 3 to take care of him.

                            I suspect that the population that agrees to arbitration is not the same as the population that seeks to bludgeon their opponents to death at trial.

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                            • #15
                              I guess case confences depend on courthouse? 18 months since I have filed my application and I have had one initial conference, two case conferences, two settlement confences, two trial scheduling conferences, and two motion hearings with very little movement forward despite the fact that I am at the courthouse at least once a month filing items for the next appearance. If both sides want to settle I guess it can be quick - but all you need is one unreasonable side to then have things dragged out for years.

                              Comment

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