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  • #16
    1) My ex and I don't have a final separation agreement.
    2) My ex has declared they are going to be living with someone and my kids.
    3) This declaration may mean that I know and have made allowances in the separation agreement about a circumstance even though it has not happened yet.


    "What should I be asking to have put into the final separation agreement now in order to protect myself on the material change item?"

    Comment


    • #17
      thank you Rockscan for including material change.
      They have not worked for 3 years and are currently stating that they will work after completing courses.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by GreenGrass View Post
        thank you Rockscan for including material change.
        They have not worked for 3 years and are currently stating that they will work after completing courses.

        What is their background and reasoning for not working? For instance, are they in possession of a high level degree and were working for years at a high income and took the last three years off to care for the kids? Or were they employed in a menial low paying job where the two of you decided to have them stay at home with the kids. You should be approaching this as “what are they capable of” vs “what is their motive”. If they are capable of working and are using the classes as an excuse to stay out of the workforce then your argument is on their ability to work and earning potential. That will all be in your agreement negotiation and could run up the bill if they choose to fight having to go back to work. That goes into the imputation of income. At this point, based on your posts, you can’t go back in time. Your agreement will need to include the current situation and expectation your ex will return to work.

        You are also worried about protecting yourself from a future material change in circumstance. It is called that for a reason. If you are worried about your ex claiming a material change GOING FORWARD then you can try to have wording put in your agreement like “a material change in circumstance may include job loss, injury or change in health preventing one party from working” and go from there. Best to do a search on “material change in circumstance” on canlii and see what was accepted.

        The bottom line is that anyone can claim a material change in circumstance, they will have to back it up. The beauty of our court system is that everyone has access to it whether they have a legitimate argument or not. If every separation agreement was iron clad the family law system would not be overflowing.

        As for your comments are personal attacks, my comments on this info are not a personal attack. Posting “you are an idiot” is a personal attack.

        Comment


        • #19
          Something else to consider including is a "review date" - that is often an excellent time for you and your ex to review her job seeking activities without having to prove a "material change of circumstances" . In fact, it is a very smart way to proceed if you think about it. Keeps people accountable.

          Comment


          • #20
            I think the focus of the OP would need to be on imputing income versus material change. Why? Because if the ex is already with the new partner, is it really unexpected that they would eventually move in together? There really isn't a "change" occurring, or at least not a material change. It is a completely foreseeable change.


            It sounds like the OP has 50/50, or at least the ex doesn't appear to oppose it in the current stage of the negotiations. The ex should be supporting the children and an income should be attributed to her for that purpose and for s7 purposes. I would be arguing for that.


            Defining what a material change of circumstances is may help, but re-partnering clauses have been thrown out by judges as re-partnering is a common and foreseeable event.


            As for the ex's new partner, there is nothing you can do about that. You can try and get a police buddy to run a background check on him, but that could risk the cops job. But otherwise, there is nothing your can do or are entitled to know.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by GreenGrass View Post
              I think you missed something.
              The relationship going on for years is not my real problem with the new person. I can't care about the ex.
              I really care about my kids and our future.
              It hurts that my ex can expose the kids to whoever and whatever but if that is what I am stuck with I am.

              The problem is material change in circumstance.

              Here is another scenario. The other person has kids and my ex says that she can't work because she has their partners kids to look after 5 days a week.

              I am trying to protect myself and kids here.
              What exactly are you trying to protect your kids from?

              I don't think any of us are missing anything. You are angry. It's pretty clear. Your posts are also sounding controlling. Section 30 assessments/OCL investigations aren't usually trotted out just because there are major disagreements...it's usually because there are allegations of something darker. That's why I asked if there are restraining orders.

              Who cares if she can't or can work? If you have 50/50- then you're probably paying set-off CS, no? Is there that much of a disparity in your incomes?
              Last edited by iona6656; 02-25-2019, 04:58 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Yes, I hate the thought of some clown looking after my kids on my ex's time.

                If they have a criminal record, then technically, they are a criminal. But can still see your kids. This is actually a prime example of broken family law system. I can explain by using Iona's ex as an example. If Iona's ex committed abuse, then he can't see his kids unsupervised, as is the case for him presently. BUT could very well be dating your ex and parenting your kids half the time. Ionas already indicated that is totally fine.

                Try to find more info on his charges and possibly pull the court file to see what went on. If there is ways to see him as possessing danger to your kids, you may be able to contact children aid society who could do a background check with police and see how the dad presents himself. They are mandated to investigate. If they close file without any concern, the you are pooch.

                New partners are not material change in any event. Material change cannot be foreseeable. New partners after seperation are very foreseeable. Can't expect exs to be single forever... Unless, they take on a new crazy ex who is creating problems for child. We can't expect exs to date a crazy ex the second time around. Assuming they alleged they left you because you are insane.

                If she's rescuing her income then ask income to be imputed. make sure to claim child tax benefits if it is 50.50 custody .

                She is saying she is moving with a new partner because either she wants to rattle you or just to provide her future plans. Or both. I suspect she has some self esteem issues.

                If my ex said she was going to move in with a new partner in the future, I would just smile. If my lawyer and I read that she might plan to move with a new partner in future at my lawyers office or those rooms in court, we would start cracking jokes. Seriously, who in their right mind would want to date her, last guy that dated her dumped her and came telling me my ex is fucked (in a friendly way because we became friends when they were dating.(
                l. I just laughed. I just laughed now again. LOL.

                Take care of yourself. Don't let her get to you. She's only a very tiny dot in the grand scheme of things. Very many beautiful things in this world. Including Janus's Chaturbate hotties .

                NOT saying you should go start watching porn. Should start enjoying your freedom and talking to whatever lady you feel attracted to. Including any of her hot friends that had crushes on you and got into a bitch fight with your ex. Only if you are 100% certain their friendship is finished.

                Live your life.
                Last edited by tunnelight; 02-25-2019, 08:53 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                  What exactly are you trying to protect your kids from?

                  I don't think any of us are missing anything. You are angry. It's pretty clear. Your posts are also sounding controlling. Section 30 assessments/OCL investigations aren't usually trotted out just because there are major disagreements...it's usually because there are allegations of something darker. That's why I asked if there are restraining orders.
                  Very good observations and I agree with them. Section 30 assessments are very expensive. Most are 15,000+. It doesn't have to be "dark". Most times it is because there is so much chaos in the materials being filed. Nonsense can bring the assessors to the yard.

                  The OP needs to really start listening to the sound advice given.

                  Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                  Who cares if she can't or can work? If you have 50/50- then you're probably paying set-off CS, no? Is there that much of a disparity in your incomes?
                  I suspect that someone paid the whole Section 30 assessment with the right to seek costs based on the results of the recommendations/trial. I suspect it is the OP who paid up-front. Hence, there is a huge disparity in the incomes probably.

                  150,000K vs 45,000 on an offset is a big number. Larger than most pay when they don't even have 50-50.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                    Very good observations and I agree with them. Section 30 assessments are very expensive. Most are 15,000+. It doesn't have to be "dark". Most times it is because there is so much chaos in the materials being filed. Nonsense can bring the assessors to the yard.

                    The OP needs to really start listening to the sound advice given.

                    I suspect that someone paid the whole Section 30 assessment with the right to seek costs based on the results of the recommendations/trial. I suspect it is the OP who paid up-front. Hence, there is a huge disparity in the incomes probably.

                    150,000K vs 45,000 on an offset is a big number. Larger than most pay when they don't even have 50-50.
                    When people speculate on situations with broad brushes it is frustrating for me to hear.
                    The Section 30 all it takes is one side to say a bunch of stuff true or not.

                    I wish people would stop speculating and drawing conclusions from it.

                    However, I am sure there are other people in the world, judges, assessors, OCL people, broad brushes abound we are all just people; sometimes they are right sometimes they are wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GreenGrass View Post
                      When people speculate on situations with broad brushes it is frustrating for me to hear.
                      The Section 30 all it takes is one side to say a bunch of stuff true or not.

                      I wish people would stop speculating and drawing conclusions from it.

                      However, I am sure there are other people in the world, judges, assessors, OCL people, broad brushes abound we are all just people; sometimes they are right sometimes they are wrong.
                      First rule of an anonymous public web forum:

                      No one will believe anything you say.

                      Second rule of anonymous public web forums:

                      No one will believe anything you say.

                      Also, Section 30s are not ordered willy nilly. If you agreed to it. Your fault for doing so.

                      See this detailed thread on the case law.

                      https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/...ad.php?t=12452

                      [23] Assessments should be limited to cases in which there are clinical issues to be determined, in order that such assessments can provide expert evidence on the appropriate manner to address the emotional and psychological stresses within the family unit in the final determination of custody. (Linton, supra; Archer v. Harries-Jones 2008 ONCJ 544 (CanLII), 2008 CarswellOnt 6624 (OCJ); Menahem v. Menahem 2005 CarswellOnt 4988 (SCJ); Parkins v Burnke 2006 CanLII 24450 (ON SC), 2006 CarswellOnt 4499 (SCJ)).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                        First rule of an anonymous public web forum:

                        No one will believe anything you say.

                        Second rule of anonymous public web forums:

                        No one will believe anything you say.
                        Not true. Lots of parents here are believed and given advice based on what they say. Why did we all believe Kate's kids got really badly injured under the father's care if your theory is correct?


                        Also, Section 30s are not ordered willy nilly. If you agreed to it. Your fault for doing so.

                        [/QUOTE]


                        That's really bad feedback. Your fault for agreeing to it. It can't be his fault if the assessor made poor judgement and poor recommendations. That's the assessors fault. Also, the courts have final say on what gets ordered. They can say no if it's not merited and unreasonable. I suspect the court felt it was necessary .



                        There are much better sites with more professional feedback if you dont get good feedback here. I myself resort to those sites the majority of the time. Quora, Aviva, and there are forums more dedicated to dads in California. Their laws and underlying principles are the similar for the most part. Ontario follows California's lead in most areas of family law.

                        One thing I can really say about this site is lots of people here have personal problems and other issues so they take any opportunity they can do condescend others to make themselves feel superior and somehow smarter :/ Sort of like myself (tounge in check)
                        Last edited by tunnelight; 02-28-2019, 11:21 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          No the problem is when you ask a question. This thread is an example. If it was left at “my ex has indicated she plans to move in with her new partner and stop working. How do I protect myself from off set child support and/or spousal support based on this info?” Instead it went into wanting to know about the new partner, concerns about kids safety and further.

                          This poster has a tendency to ramble, ask questions about irrelevant info and not get to the point. Then he starts accusing people of personal attacks, of not understanding or of making false assumptions.

                          First rule of family law: stick to the facts.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                            If they have a criminal record, then technically, they are a criminal. But can still see your kids. This is actually a prime example of broken family law system. I can explain by using Iona's ex as an example. If Iona's ex committed abuse, then he can't see his kids unsupervised, as is the case for him presently. BUT could very well be dating your ex and parenting your kids half the time. Ionas already indicated that is totally fine.
                            No I didn't.

                            Should start enjoying your freedom and talking to whatever lady you feel attracted to. Including any of her hot friends that had crushes on you and got into a bitch fight with your ex. Only if you are 100% certain their friendship is finished.

                            Live your life.
                            this is dumb advice. why would you want to be involved with your ex more than you have to...and trying to date someone in their friend group?...I mean- if you like the drama, go for it.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I get what your concerns are. The system is really broken. It seems like the stable, hard working parent gets screwed over by also becoming the ex spouse's work horse. It's disgusting. Sounds like you are having to pay spousal??? So I can see your concern. It is very possible I will be paying spousal to a man who keeps himself unemployable by not complying with medication. Isn't this just lovely? All he has to do is take his meds and he can function. But what for when I can be his work horse? I have sole custody of my kids, he can pay no child support because he doesn't work and I'm going to have to pay him! Not because I make a shitload of money but because I just make more than him. Of course I do! He is unemployed. So guess what? If I pay him, I don't have the money to rent or own a home so we are living with my parents in a tiny home. Me and two boys sharing a 10 by 10 bedroom. And that is f***ckin okay with our system. Sorry to hijack your thread but your post triggered me. I feel your pain. And I share your frustration. I don't have a solution for you as I am still at it 7 years later and over 120,000 in legal fees. Money that I need to raise my children is going to lawyers. Stay strong. Can you show that your ex is purposely not working?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                                No I didn't.

                                He expressed concern with the ex's partner being around the kids annd you indicated that he sounds controling. Emphasis added.


                                Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                                this is dumb advice. why would you want to be involved with your ex more than you have to...and trying to date someone in their friend group?...I mean- if you like the drama, go for it.
                                Calls me dumb. Proves my point exactly about some of the posters here.. ...I clearly indicated that if you are 100% sure they're not friends.

                                In any event, why would there be any drama? It's not like they're dating or married. He's free to do whatever the hell and speak to who ever the hell he wants . The EX Can't harass him about that. Unless she's controlling of course.

                                Comment

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