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Legalities of School Pick Ups

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  • Legalities of School Pick Ups

    Asking this for my spouse.
    .

    He recently met with his child’s principal & teacher to get on the mailing list for events etc, and provided them with a copy of the order (ex is being very controlling and won’t give him school info or let him pick up his daughter for his parenting time- she makes him wait until she gets off work, goes and picks up child herself and then makes my spouse pickup his child at her house- which cuts his time by a good hour)
    He explained to the principal how he would like to pick child up from school during his scheduled parenting times. The principal said that while they sympathize with his situation, that because his ex has sole custody and has not listed him as an authorized person to do school pick ups, that they cannot allow it. The principal told him he needs a court order for this.

    My question: His court order specifically states the time that his parenting time begins at. It does not say he CANNOT pick up from school. If the child is still in the after school program at that time and the mother has not picked her up yet, then technically it is now legally his time with the child. Can the school hold his child there during his court ordered parenting time?

  • #2
    He may want to also speak to the school superintendent. Some schools do not want to get involved.

    I will say though that many schools follow an order to the letter. If your order says anything other than “dad can pick up child at 3:30 pm from the school on his days” they will not waiver from considering it moms decision. They could interpret the order as after school, after school daycare or after the child returns home from school.

    Comment


    • #3
      His order literally says:

      “Father shall have parenting time with the child EOW from 5pm on Fridays until 5pm on Sundays”

      There is nothing in the order about pick up locations.

      So to me, I interpret that as “Father can pick child up from wherever she is on Fridays at 5”. If he was some sort of danger there would be either a clause saying he can’t pick up from school or a supervised access order, which there is neither

      It’s just frustrating because
      A) mom doesn’t even provide a half ass reason why he can’t pick child up from school
      B) She makes a point of harassing him in front of child when he picks up at the house
      C) He looses out on an hour of already limited time while his daughter sits in after school care. Literally no one benefits from this madness

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the problem is he is not listed on the school/daycare authorized pick up list. If you could get ex to add him to that, your good regardless of the court order. If not, she is being really petty and I would see if I could get this added via court order/mediation/lawyer letter, whatever it takes. If pick up is 5:00 pm, then I agree that the school may have an issue with it. My agreement says "after school/daycare on Friday" not a specific time, but there is a specific time if there is no school.

        Is he not getting report cards or going to parent teacher interviews? I think both parents should be involved with school especially if they are both willing, it can be done individually. I remember my motion last spring where the Judge told my ex it was both an honour and privilege to take your children to school.

        I too hate the "in person" exchanges and fought hard for school/daycare pick ups, the "harassment" isnt good for children. I got the Fridays, but still stuck with exchanges on Sunday nights.

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a matter of (1) understanding the legalese, which might be jurisdiction-specific, and (2) communicating it to the principal, who might be an ignoramus.

          Does evil mom have a court order that says she has "sole custody"?

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes she has sole. She withheld their daughter from him after he left her and established primary caregiver status quo. Once my spouse took her to court, he was desperate for any sort of regular contact with his child. He finally got her to agree to EOW on consent. Her lawyer drafted the order and it says “Mom has custody/is PC, Father has EOW”
            His lawyer never bothered explaining to him that “custody” did not mean where the child lives, but rather what sort of legal say he has concerning the child. At that point he was so desperate to end the conflict and see his daughter that he just went and signed it without actually realizing what exactly he was signing to.

            kate331: The ex makes it very difficult for him to be involved. He asked for a month leading up to Xmas when the Xmas concert was. Mom said she “didn’t know”. Called the school to find out and got a very cold shoulder as she never bothered to list him as a parent. She Finally told him of the date a few days before. When she found out that I was coming she made their daughter call him crying saying that she didn’t want us to come.
            Hence the meeting with school staff recently. He now receives all communication directly. But there is no way the ex is going to put him on the authorization list; she seems to feed off the control factor. So it’s either find a loophole in the school boards rules or else start a motion and waste everyone’s time and money.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kate331 View Post
              If pick up is 5:00 pm, then I agree that the school may have an issue with it. My agreement says "after school/daycare on Friday" not a specific time, but there is a specific time if there is no school..
              The problem is that the child is ALWAYS still at the school’s after school program at 5:00pm. Mom doesn’t finish work until at least then, then drives across town to pick child up. I could see the issue if order says “5:00pm” and he’s coming at 3:30 to pick up (although even that is ridiculous in my opinion)
              But what is the issue if he goes to the school AT 5:00. In my mind all he should have to do is wave the order in their face and say “look, it’s telling me to pick her up at 5 so here I am!”

              Comment


              • #8
                Again, he could speak to the superintendent but they may not do anything about releasing the child outside of 5 pm.

                It doesn’t matter what he says or does, his ex will do whatever she can to destroy his connection to the child. She will continue to harass him. He should look into a motion to change custody especially if she is denying access.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If the mother has sole custody then the principal is probably correct. Things like this always come up at schools, which is why usually the principal is on the ball when it comes to family law.

                  The father should fire his lawyer and attempt to get joint custody ASAP. Hopefully the sole custody order is not final.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    as a father who went through this, there is actually not a damn thing he can do and the school can actually call the cops on him to have him removed from the school.

                    send some letters to mom that his schedule allows to do pickups from school and ride chance of conflict.

                    burden, you need a material change. what has changed that he has to do pickups from school? are they conflicted and he wants to reduce chance of conflict?

                    Either way, the courts probably won't mind allowing school pick ups and drop offs. the father will have e to reassure this is not a temporary thing and something he will follow through with ever more.

                    keep asking mom. if she keeps saying no, document them, and then have a lawyer send a letter, if she still says no, take her to court.

                    be super polite with mom.

                    if his access ends at 5PM and mom doesn't release child to him until 6PM, then document that as a reason to allow him to do school pick ups so he's not waiting around for mom to find her socks.


                    EDIT. I assumed there is a final order with sole custody to mom and this access to dad. Have I mistaken and this is only a temporary order? was it on consent or ordered on motion ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                      He should look into a motion to change custody especially if she is denying access.
                      That may very likely be the eventual outcome of this. A long road with lots of documenting and collecting evidence

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To show he is able to pick her up at 5pm he should be at the school at five, introduce himself to the teachers, and wait for mom to arrive. When the child is officially released to her custody he can be standing beside the teacher. Therefore there should be no reason for him to immediately start his access time. If she insists she has to drive the child to his house, state objections calmly ONCE, but do not fight, and he should stay with the teacher if possible and allow mom to leave with the child so there can be no later comments about mom feeling intimidated or comments made away from the teacher’s hearing. Stay calm and build a relationship with the teacher(s) over the weeks. The teachers can then be asked to provide affidaviates that he has been available to pick up the child at five pm, and that mom left with the child during his parenting time. Proof of what he has actually been doing is much stronger than promises of what he would do differently.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A lot of these suggestions sound very confrontational...is that the best way to go?

                          Question for OP- is mom controlling about other school matters? e.g. is Dad okay to do parent-teacher meetings...does he involve himself otherwise?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                            A lot of these suggestions sound very confrontational...is that the best way to go?

                            Question for OP- is mom controlling about other school matters? e.g. is Dad okay to do parent-teacher meetings...does he involve himself otherwise?

                            I read that the Ex does not involve the OP's spouse or actively invite them to participate with school functions. That the OP's spouse must essentially work around the ex to get the information.


                            It sounds like the OP's spouse has managed to speak to the school and at least be forwarded copies of school documents.


                            I went through this as well. Each school year when my child was younger, I made an appointment to go into the school and introduce myself to the teacher. Ask to be put on the mailing list, as the ex never did, and generally create a relationship with the teacher/staff. Now my ex lists me as a contact, but I still don't get any real info from her. I still have to fish it out. I bookmarked the school so I can quickly access the information.


                            Question, with regards to report cards etc., does the agreement have any wording on that? Something like that both parents are entitled to contact the school and participate equally with the child's education? If not, I would politely email the ex to ask her if she is willing to update the agreement to provide for such wording to be added to the agreement, as it is in the child's best interests that both parents be actively involved in the child's education, and it would eliminate the need for her to have to spend her time advising of matters relating to schooling, saving her time in the long run.


                            Regarding the parenting time issue, I would politely email the ex and advise her that parenting time starts at 5pm per the order. That he is able to pick the child up at 5pm. That he doesn't see a reason the extra transfer between school and the ex's house, at it intrudes on his time and has the necessary items for the child at his house. That it is common for parents in their situation to have pickups at schools. That he respectfully requests that she allow for pickups to be at school.


                            Once you've asked a few times, and gotten no in return, and noted to the ex that another hour was lost unnecessarily, you have your lawyer send a letter asking that transfers be at school. That you are willing to file a motion to provide for same as you have consistently lost out on time with the child for no particular reason.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                              A lot of these suggestions sound very confrontational...is that the best way to go?

                              Question for OP- is mom controlling about other school matters? e.g. is Dad okay to do parent-teacher meetings...does he involve himself otherwise?
                              This is the problem. My spouse hates confrontation and gets major anxiety even thinking about these issues. I don’t think standing at the school at 5pm while mom picks up is the way to go.

                              She has been over the top controlling about school issues. He finally got fed up with trying to get info out of her and booked an interview with the principal/teacher to get on the email list for events etc. When she found out about this she freaked out, but has actually been keeping in her lane the past month or so.

                              This seems to be the cycle. She does/says/demands something that is totally out of line, and keeps doing said thing. Finally he will get fed up and make a stand. She knows that she has no right to do what she’s doing and will give in and begin being super nice. Pulls him into false sense of security that “everything has changed”. Then starts the beginning of the cycle all over again with something new.

                              Comment

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