Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-18-2006, 05:40 PM
girlwithaproblem girlwithaproblem is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 8
girlwithaproblem is on a distinguished road
Default Forcing to sell the house

This is my first post so I hope my situation isn't trivial to so many others out there. No matter how you cut it, separation/divorce is so hard to deal with. I think more so because you still have to put on your game face and focus on surviving (work, kids - life goes on).

My husband and I are married (almost 5 years). We have jointly owned a home for 4.5 years. I was given a gift of $12,000 by my parents as a down payment for this home. When we do the division of assets , can I keep the $12K from the sale of the home or is he entitled to half of this amount? I wonder because my understanding of Ontario law is that all monies that were put towards home improvements are a part of the home so you would divide any proceeds that these improvements incurred between you. Does this fall into similar law?

I am creating a separation agreement on my own. I am hoping we can mutually work out much of the details of asset division without having lawyers get involved (other than to review). My big issue is that we both still live in the same house together. I want to move out, however he needs to either buy me out or we need to sell the house to move out and on. He has already had 6 weeks now to make finanacial arrangements. He is stalling. I have indicated that we need to move on - he states he won't until he is good and ready to put the house on the market. He doesn't "feel like inconveniencing himself with a move right now." Unfortunately I am not in a financial position to move out until he decides. What can I do to speed this process along? Is there any legal action I can take? Can I eventually force him to sell like he is forcing me to stay (he knows this and is using it against me).

Also, I have started some RRSP's. Not a large amount in the pot yet but is there a way I can fight him to keep it all and my work pension? He has chosen not to put any monies into a pot and he has chosen to work for companies that have no pensions (does not find it important) but knowing that I have some he is going to want it. If I went and cashed in my RRSP's and put it into purchasing a vehicle for myself (or even give it away as a loan to someont) could I get in trouble for this? There's no way he should be getting a free ride for any longer than he already has.

Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated. I am stuck and want to move on.
  #2  
Old 06-18-2006, 09:25 PM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,943
logicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Yahoo to logicalvelocity
Default

girlwithaproblem,

welcome to the forum

you mentioned

Quote:
My husband and I are married (almost 5 years). We have jointly owned a home for 4.5 years. I was given a gift of $12,000 by my parents as a down payment for this home. When we do the division of assets , can I keep the $12K from the sale of the home or is he entitled to half of this amount? I wonder because my understanding of Ontario law is that all monies that were put towards home improvements are a part of the home so you would divide any proceeds that these improvements incurred between you. Does this fall into similar law?

I believe the 12K equity would have to be divided. Seems like the gift was given to you by your parents AFTER you were married. Moreover, the intention appears on the balance of probabilities to be used for the purchase of the matrimonial home and applied towards the purchase. Perhaps it was a wedding gift so to speak. If this 12K was a loan, then your parent's would have to be paid back when the home is sold or when one party was bought out.

Quote:
My big issue is that we both still live in the same house together. I want to move out, however he needs to either buy me out or we need to sell the house to move out and on. He has already had 6 weeks now to make financial arrangements. He is stalling. I have indicated that we need to move on - he states he won't until he is good and ready to put the house on the market. He doesn't "feel like inconveniencing himself with a move right now." Unfortunately I am not in a financial position to move out until he decides. What can I do to speed this process along? Is there any legal action I can take? Can I eventually force him to sell like he is forcing me to stay (he knows this and is using it against me).

Careful about moving out to quickly. In regards to equalization of the equity in the home; the value would be taken on the date of separation. So if you left today, and your spouse STALLED for many months and the value increased substantially, you can't claim your share in the equity from the date of separation to the time its sold. You can only take an equal share up to the date of separation.

You can bring forth an application through the court's and request an order to have the house appraised and sold. ASAP. However, This would take a few months and cost could be significant. It sort of contradicts the purpose of the separation agreement to an amicable resolution to the issues. As an example,

IE: from the date the application, 2 months to the first appearance, then a further case conference, then perhaps a motion. Most likely looking at about 4 months to get some resolution to this issue. In the interim, To list the home for sale on the market, I believe you would need his signature.


Quote:
Also, I have started some RRSP's. Not a large amount in the pot yet but is there a way I can fight him to keep it all and my work pension? He has chosen not to put any monies into a pot and he has chosen to work for companies that have no pensions (does not find it important) but knowing that I have some he is going to want it. If I went and cashed in my RRSP's and put it into purchasing a vehicle for myself (or even give it away as a loan to someont) could I get in trouble for this? There's no way he should be getting a free ride for any longer than he already has.

Pensions and RSP's are subject to division during the time of the relationship and marriage. You could cash in your Rsp's and purchase a vehicle. However the value of the vehicle could be up for division. Does he have a vehicle? If so the value of his vehicle will also be up for division.

Don't forget about each others CPP credits earned by each during the time of the relationship. These credits are available to be equally divided.

You never mentioned whether or not there is children involved, if there was you could bring forth an order for exclusive possession of the matrimonial home on the stance that it would be in the children's best interest, it would be less disruptive to them.

LV
  #3  
Old 06-19-2006, 05:55 PM
girlwithaproblem girlwithaproblem is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 8
girlwithaproblem is on a distinguished road
Default Selling the house

Thanks LV for your comments.
I am kindof hoping he doesn't think of the CPP and vehicles with respect to division of assets. We have always maintained that my vehicle is mine and his is his so I hope that continues. Who knows though. We think we really know people and then you see the ugliest side imaginable.

There are kids involved, however they are from a previous marriage (18 yrs and 16 yrs old). I do not receive any child support from my ex (and this is a whole other issue) but my husband and I have been together for 13 years. I would not seek support.

Sadly, my almost 18 year old son and my husband do not get along and my son is not living at home right now. That is why I need to leave sooner rather than later and my husband knows this. Because he despises my son so much (I think there is a jealousy issue here) and he knows I am moving out to provide a home to both children and not just one, he will do what he can to prevent me from moving quickly, therefore delay putting the house on the market.

If I were to borrow again to use as a down payment, I would have to have it in someone else's name since we are not separated so that he cannot put a claim for his share of this pie. Am I correct in this assumption?

This will certainly be a game to him just to spite me (and my son). How has anyone else managed to keep their sanity, witts and logic about them and go on making good personal and work decisions? I am already exhausted and I have yet to really begin.
  #4  
Old 06-19-2006, 06:15 PM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,943
logicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Yahoo to logicalvelocity
Default

girlwithaproblem,

In regards to support of the children of a previous relationship.

To me, you spouse most likely acted as a parent to these children. If that is so, I believe you would be entitled to table amount plus section 7 extra-ordinary expenses such as post secondary education.

Quote:
Sadly, my almost 18 year old son and my husband do not get along and my son is not living at home right now. That is why I need to leave sooner rather than later and my husband knows this. Because he despises my son so much (I think there is a jealousy issue here) and he knows I am moving out to provide a home to both children and not just one, he will do what he can to prevent me from moving quickly, therefore delay putting the house on the market.
If he is not willing to move and not willing to buy you out, why not seek an order for exclusive possession of the home or an order for the court to have the home sold. I think you have sufficient grounds.

Quote:
If I were to borrow again to use as a down payment, I would have to have it in someone else's name since we are not separated so that he cannot put a claim for his share of this pie. Am I correct in this assumption?
I believe you are correct in this assumption.

Quote:
This will certainly be a game to him just to spite me (and my son). How has anyone else managed to keep their sanity, witts and logic about them and go on making good personal and work decisions? I am already exhausted and I have yet to really begin.
I agree with you on this. Divorce and separation can be emotionally overwhelming. I think you have a good bargaining chip in regards support of your children as he acted as a parent.

University and college expenses can add up for 2 children over a number of years. You have mentioned that you have no intention to pursue a claim. Why not use the potential claim as leverage to resolution to equalization of the home. Perhaps you could strike a deal.

lv
  #5  
Old 06-20-2006, 06:43 AM
Divorcemanagement Divorcemanagement is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 281
Divorcemanagement has a spectacular aura aboutDivorcemanagement has a spectacular aura about
Default Speeding it along

Hi there Girlwithaproblem:

An expeditious way to ending the marriage is what a lot of people seek and gauging from your posting, you are clearly frustrated. I often tell clients of mine, don't negotiate outside of a facilitated process because sometimes you need that facilitator to move things along.

Offer to attend family mediation and here's why: the mediator in me would want to develop a hypothesis about his reluctance to divide the home and formalize the end of your marriage. A mediator would do this by asking questions to both of you that have nothing to do with when either party is moving out, but rather, on the value of the house to generate agreement on dividing the asset - then he/she would ask about the rest of the issues.

Mediation is an excellent way to get this done, you might want to consider it.
  #6  
Old 06-20-2006, 05:20 PM
girlwithaproblem girlwithaproblem is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 8
girlwithaproblem is on a distinguished road
Default

Unfortunately my husband is not interested in mediation (he laughed) nor was he interested in couples and family therapy because in his eyes, bottom line is it is I who is ending the marriage all because of my son and it is he (son) who has destroyed everything. Therefore, my husband will not make this split simple or amicable because I have chosen my children over him (naturally there is so much more to the ending of this marriage than my son but he does not see this). We are talking about a guy who started filling in the fish pond when I said I can't go on like this - stating that I'll "not get one penny more for the house as when we bought it." He was going to remove or destroy some of our upgrades. (Yeah okay buddy)
An awful thing to say but I may just use the child support as a bargaining chip, however when you start doing things like that it only increases the animosity, anger and even legal bills! Plus it can draw the process out much longer.
If he continues to delay and I seek direction through the courts can I sue him to recoup the legal bills I have incurred because of his irrational behaviour and unwillingness to resolve these issues in an adult like manner? His behaviour is strictly out of spite, to make me miserable and ultimately to keep my son displaced (living temporarily at friends house) and miserable.
  #7  
Old 06-20-2006, 07:48 PM
girlwithaproblem girlwithaproblem is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 8
girlwithaproblem is on a distinguished road
Default Court Order to sell house - Need more info

Logicalvelocity, You had earlier mentioned two different orders: order for exclusive possession of the home and an order for the court to have the home sold. Can you tell me more about the order for the court to have the home sold? What is the actual order called? How do I go about getting this done (can I file it myself)? and What information is required?

I feel that I am getting into a real messy spot here and he is just not willing to budge on moving/selling and is being completely unco-operative. I would normally care less but I still live under the same roof and this is getting unbearable. I can't move out and onwards until I get my share of the sale of the house.

Am I really as stuck as I feel?
  #8  
Old 06-22-2006, 06:38 PM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,943
logicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Yahoo to logicalvelocity
Default

girlwithaproblem,

You could bring forth an application with the court's and request an order to have the home sold. I believe you have sufficient grounds. In the same application, you would list all your claims, custody, access, etc.

You would probably be looking at 4 to 6 months before you could bring forth a motion.

lv
  #9  
Old 06-24-2006, 07:37 AM
thelongending thelongending is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1
thelongending is on a distinguished road
Default Forcing home sale

I too am facing an issue similar to "girlwithaproblem" though I am the one who wants my ex to move out and not to sell the house. I have gotten the home appraised as of the date of separation....I have spent my money to put together an agreement which is more than fair - it buys out his SUV which I had to co-sign for him, forgives him over 50K of debt he owes me and gives him a cash settlement. He is up to his eyeballs in debt, does not contribute to the mortgage or any household finances, but wants more money out of me and refuses to leave the home or acknowledge the separation agreement. He cannot qualify for any kind of financing on his own but is under the delusion - and I believe it's because he is depressed and angry that by selling the home - he'll be able to pay out all of his debts and start fresh...there isn't enough money in the home to do that....

He's living here for free, even though he has a full time job- just like he's been doing for the past 8 years and I'm fed up. I'd like to legally force his hand....What is my best course of action without incurring huge legal fees?

Please HELP!!! I need to move on.....
  #10  
Old 06-25-2006, 10:38 AM
girlwithaproblem girlwithaproblem is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 8
girlwithaproblem is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Longending,
Sorry to hear that you too are going through the same nonsense. This is sooo stressful. My husband feels that since he did all the labour (yes he is a handyman and I was his gopher/helper) he should get 66% of what I am asking for. He knows that I am unable to go anywhere until I get my money (either through sale of buy out (this option I think is his delusion as well) and I am stuck. This makes him very happy as it keeps me away from my son who is living with friends. He has been very kind to tell me to leave and go rent and he'll assume the mortgage (no separation agreement yet). Yup, he thinks I am stupid I guess but I guess you can be cocky when the ball is in your court. You know, I can't really proceed with legal action either as we both live under the same roof and my 16 yr old daughter has about lost her mind with all this tension.
I wish you well and look forward to some responses on this thread to help us move along.
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forcing Sale of House Alfred75 Financial Issues 6 06-29-2010 05:56 PM
we made an agreement in wrting to sell house mannaguy Divorce & Family Law 2 03-10-2010 08:09 AM
Can a judge force my ex to sell her house? frenchsquad Divorce & Family Law 3 11-27-2009 09:07 PM
Looks like I'll lose the house now, too! sasha1 Divorce & Family Law 12 06-27-2009 11:14 PM
Question about being forced to sell house Mesh55 Divorce & Family Law 1 09-22-2008 01:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:26 AM.